When Well Enough Can't Be Left Alone; Backdate, EFI/ITB, AC, and more!

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by Showdown

The Classic Retrofit Wosp alternator has a threaded shaft that’s larger than the Porsche original. The nut is also larger and has different threads; no problem there. The problem comes when trying to reassemble the pulley wheel and the little domed fitting that goes between the nut and the shims that clamps everything down. Because the shaft is larger, the domed fitting won’t fit over the shaft. I’m lucky that I have a mill and lathe and was able to enlarge that hole but given the cost of the alternator a new fitting should be included or at least a mention of this problem in the instructions.

The large majority of 911 alternators have a 17mm shaft, same as our replacement alternator.

The 16mm shaft alternator (which you have) was fitted for a very short period of time before reverting back to 17mm. The only modification required is to the cup washer or just get a 17mm replacement washer from Porsche.

We will add a note to the manual.

[al lkosmal]

Looking pretty tidy in there.......nice work. One observation and recommendation....most of your project posts, while showing nice work and good progress.... seem to focus on the negative aspects of the project, ....delays, etc....It is supposed to be fun....the delays, USPS, whatever are variables that are always part of a project...if it's not USPS, it will be parts availability, wrong parts, missing ( I use a checklist , when packing my kits...and still miss bits sometimes)...whatever....the delays are inevitable. A Porsche hotrod, DIY project takes a certain positive mindset and creative, problem solving focus.....you seem to have the creative side down pat..........have some fun with it!

[Showdown]

Oh I am having fun with it- it's the highlight of my week, hell, it's the highlight of my childhood!

I'm just also trying to be brutally honest for those who are considering this path so that they can learn from my shortcomings or mistakes. I've learned so much from posts here that I'd like to give something back and a "look how awesome I am" thread just isn't me... at least not yet.

Hagiographic celebrations of one's successes rarely move the needle.

Case in point; Jonny is updating his manual to make a note of the 16mm vs 17mm alternator shaft. That means that my complaint or focus on the negative (and really it wasn't a life altering issue) has made the product or process better and for that everyone should be grateful. The next person who upgrades their alternator might not have their day stalled due to a strange Stuttgart decision... they may be able to avoid my issues because I shared them.

Trust me Al, all day long all I think about is getting to work on this car. I'll make sure that my future posts better reflect that feeling.

-J

[al lkosmal]

Yep....I've been doing this for a while now and still can't wait to get out there and problem solve, build, install, tune....and fire them up...nothing like it. You seem to have a great skill-set and will have no problems you can't solve. nice work.

regards,
al

[shoooo32]

Pelican is a fun juxtaposition from the "everything is perfect" world of Instagram. I always appreciate seeing how the soup is made, even if the process includes some unappealing aspects.

Case in point, watching Chris struggle with EFI made me re-examine my hatred of CIS. I ended up really liking CIS once I studied and modified it for my application. That's not to say I'll never do an EFI car, though. It looks like a fun hobby

Keep the updates coming Julian!

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by shoooo32

Pelican is a fun juxtaposition from the "everything is perfect" world of Instagram. I always appreciate seeing how the soup is made, even if the process includes some unappealing aspects.

Case in point, watching Chris struggle with EFI made me re-examine my hatred of CIS. I ended up really liking CIS once I studied and modified it for my application. That's not to say I'll never do an EFI car, though. It looks like a fun hobby

Keep the updates coming Julian!

Oh just you hold the phone until this winter is over, Tony.
I'm coming for your 3.2ss with my mild 3.0 EFI build.

[chrismorse]

OH, this is heating up a bit !!!

Are we talking PINKS???

Oh my - Can I watch??

[shoooo32]

Ruchlos Rallye 2. We’ll settle it on the mountain!

Showdown is invited to mix it up with us as well.

[Showdown]

Originally Posted by shoooo32

Ruchlos Rallye 2. We’ll settle it on the mountain!

Showdown is invited to mix it up with us as well.

Oof, now I really have to make sure I don’t mess this up!!

[msmall215]

Originally Posted by shoooo32

Ruchlos Rallye 2. We’ll settle it on the mountain!

Showdown is invited to mix it up with us as well.

This sounds spicy, I'm throwing my hat in the ring as another for team EFI

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by chrismorse

OH, this is heating up a bit !!!

Are we talking PINKS???

Oh my - Can I watch??

No pinks, but maybe lunch.

Originally Posted by shoooo32

Ruchlos Rallye 2. We’ll settle it on the mountain!

Showdown is invited to mix it up with us as well.

That's a deal.

Originally Posted by Showdown

Oof, now I really have to make sure I don’t mess this up!!

This is what we like to hear. Last year was a blast. Even all the wives I talked to loved it.

Originally Posted by msmall215

This sounds spicy, I'm throwing my hat in the ring as another for team EFI

Ah jeeze. Mr hotrod 3.6 wants to play. Too bad my car is significantly lighter than all of yours. HP is faster in the straights, but lightweight is faster everywhere.
I guess I better lose some lbs myself or I'm just offsetting the difference in the cars!

[Showdown]

Day 5

Knowing that I wasn’t likely to work on the car this weekend due to a family wedding, I stole 20 mins here and 20 mins there from my work day to tend to some intermediate projects. I’m lucky that my car lives at my work studio with access to all my tools and supplies. I’m also unlucky that my car lives at my work as it sings a siren song for my attention thus making actually working quite difficult.

In any event I started wrapping the wiring with fold-over loom material that I can open up later if something isn’t right. I’m double and triple checking everything in hopes to avoid an issue but it’s nice to know that it’s not all sealed up. I wanted to get it wrapped before the ITBs go in as space is a premium and I don’t want to origami myself in there.
I fabricated a dirty ugly little mounting bracket for the deutsche connector- I didn’t want it rattling around.

Still far from finished but making headway.









A whole bunch of boxes showed up: Clewett, Stuttgart-Classica, and a million small ones from Amazon: all parts to hopefully make the next steps delay free.

[chrisbalich]

Julian,

Your bracket looks like aluminum.
Pick up a deburring tool. It'll make short work of the rough edges on the hole you cut for your connector.
(cheap on Amazon)

[Showdown]

Day 6

A rare Saturday post must mean something good or something not good, or both.

Let's start off with the good:

The bulk of the work today was tying in all of the engine bay wiring to the MSD harness via a Deutsch connector. I also installed a few other quick connectors to make engine drops easier. I realize now that I probably should have mounted the fuel pressure regulator and vacuum manifold on the engine rather than the firewall as that would have made engine drops as simple as disconnecting 4 hoses (fuel line in and return, brake booster, vacuum line) as opposed to 7 (fuel line to the fuel rails, 6x ITB vacuum lines) … maybe it’s a wash…?







With all of the wires run it was now time to finish up the installation of the mechanicals. I got the ITBs, the throttle linkage, a new coil, the vacuum hose, manifold hoses and new Clewett plug wires installed (after ordering them online Richard Clewett called me to confirm some selections and we had a lovely 15 minute conversation about my project- it was really cool to hear his genuine enthusiasm even though my humble 2.7 probably wouldn’t even cut it for his lawnmower)

And with that, everything was done!!

I paused and marveled at the new engine bay for a while and then moved on to the next step: firing it up.





And that's where the good ends.

I loaded up Al's tune, checked the fuel lines and pressure and then went all on and twisted that key to Valhalla.

Fuel pump comes on, fuel pressure at 40psi, engine cranks and cranks but wont turn over and start up without giving it some gas via the pedal. If I keep the RPMs at about 1500 it will run albeit not well at all. If I let off the gas, the car dies.

This is not good.




With my laptop and TunerStudio running this is what it looks like:



In both videos I have to keep on the gas to keep the car alive.

The engine is spewing gas and oil and there's a massive puddle of it on the floor and my garage door. My entire building and I smell like Mad Max and I'm pretty sure the entire neighborhood is now high as hell off fumes.




So I don't even have the slightest clue as to what is going on or how to even figure out that answer. I know that AFR at 17 is oh so not good and that's about it. I don't know why it's doing that, I don't know how to diagnose the issue(s), I don't know how to even think about what could be going wrong.

Help.

[trond]

i'd look into firing order, and that all plugs are firing

[al lkosmal]

Julian,
Congrats ......the start-up tune file got your engine fired up and running and now the real tuning begins.

Per the User's Guide...
• TunerStudio (EFI Analytics and DIY AutoTune software) check out their websites.The TunerStudio program. This is the program that allows you to program the tuning tables, etc. It also will display the various parameters such as RPM’s, injector pulse, manifold air pressure, battery voltage, A/F mix, etc. This is customizable.
• MegaLog viewer
a. Allow you to easily view the TunerStudio log files.

• (1) your baseline tune file ( *.msq)
i. Note: this file has will fire up your engine and allow you to complete the tuning. This file worked well with ITBs, as tested on my engine test stand.
ii. The engine may run a bit rich at first as I tend to provide them that way……better safe than sorry on the test stand…………….this can be fine tuned, on the dyno/road, under real load conditions. All engines are different and two identically prepared engines will typically be tuned differently to achieve best running/performance. You can use Tuner Studio and Megalog to view and log the tuning. Megalog viewer can be used to view the logging files and then can be used to identify the relationships between MAP, TPS, AFR, and RPM and modify the maps accordingly.


Tuning The Idle AFRs

You will find that the car will likely idle best between an AFR ratio of 12.5:1 and 13.5:1. Most likely you will end up right around 13:1. To tune the idle, make sure the idle speed is set to its final value (1000-1200 RPM is a nice, smooth idle with ITBs). With the car fully warm, you can adjust the idle fuel bins. Try to find an AFR at which the engine is most smooth and pulls the most vacuum. That will result in the strongest idle. Remember, if the idle wants to hunt then you have gone too lean. If it wants to bog out and sound labored, you have gone too rich. When tuning these bins, try to make the idle area of the map look like a small valley where the bin closest to the actual idle RPM/MAP value is in the middle.
Leaving a slightly rich spot to the left helps "catch" the engine should the RPMs dip below idle and having the right side blend into the rest of the map will smooth the transition into load. When you tune a bin, tweak the bin closest to the current engine load point the most, but apply small changes to the surrounding bins. This keeps the map smooth.

Tuning AFRs At Low to Medium Load
This is most easily done with someone else to work the laptop (or drive the car). Drive the car easily at first, working in the most common area of the map (for most cars, 2000-4000 RPM at 40-70 Kpa).
Slowly observe the wideband while adjusting the VE bins to maintain a ratio of around 13.5-14.0 in this area. Of course, ultimately the wideband is just a tool so if the car likes richer ratios, tune richer. At first you will find yourself making major changes to the map, but always remember to try and maintain a smooth map. The smoothness of the table will directly represent how well the car drives. Slowly work up the RPM range while working the table. Do not forget the often missed high RPM high vacuum area (down at the bottom right of the map). Work both to the right of the map and up. Once you have crossed about 80 KpA, you will find that the engine is much happier at richer ratios. These could be near 13.5:1, or as rich as 12.5:1. You will have to determine what feels best for the engine you are running. Most engines are very happy at 13.5:1 but ultimately the AFR will be determined by feel and/or a dyno reading.




So.....Datalogging is your friend. Datalog your your cold start and idling and email me a copy of the log file and your Currenttune.msq file and I'll review it and email you back recommended changes to the tune.

Have you adjusted the ITBs, so that it will idle without you having to hold your foot on the pedal? It looks like it is running overly rich and needs to be leaned out at idle....but your 17:1 AFR reading means it is running lean, ...that is if the correct o2 calibration is entered into the program. Also,,,,has it been timed?

[Showdown]

Day 6.5

So after coming home from work where the car lives and feeling pretty lousy I took the family to see the Nutcracker ballet, assisted my 5 and 8 year old in making cookies (the results were surprisingly good) and popped a bottle of brut rosé champagne and just forgot about the 911 for a bit.



I exchanged a few emails with Al and now feel much better about the situation (young grasshopper learns from wise sage and all...) The good news, and I guess this is no small feat, is that the engine does in fact start which means that at a base level all of my mechanical and electrical work is sound and passed the smell test. I guess I was too focused on what wasn't that I forgot what was. Large victories should not be overshadowed by small defeats. Thus far I have about 20 hours all together into the EFI/ITB project and I certainly didn't expect to be at this point yet and so all things considered I should be really happy. Be happy Julian, be happy.

I'll be returning to the car this week to start calibrating all the sensors (gee, what a thought) in hopes that I can get it to idle and then begin the basic tuning process. One eats an elephant one bite at a time, after all.

It's funny going from CIS which really is idiot proof, stupid simple to work on and when working rock solid, to EFI which I assume will get to that point but starts off as a hot mess bag of legos with no instructions. And my no instructions I mean 200 page TunerStudio and MegaSquirt manuals.

The only bummer part is that the weather is about to turn in Chicago (at least historically this is when is starts to go from "hey, winter... kinda nice" to "WTF, why do I live here!") and that means that any real world tuning or dyno-ing will have to wait until spring...

At least I have a mountain of body work and AC install to keep my busy. Ha!

[chrisbalich]

Congrats on the first fire-up. That's a much bigger milestone than you give credit for.
With the tutelage of Al and the fine gents here on Pelican, you can get that thing ripping in short order.

Great work. Spring is coming soon. You've got great momentum, so keep it up.

[Mr Beau]

First video, sounds like it's running on 3 or 4 cylinders. Check your firing order and plugs, etc.

Plugs are probably fouled.

Is your TPS reading correctly? 70% at idle?

Timing has been verified? It sounded like it kicked back when you were trying to start it.

Lean AFR is due to misfire. Misfire is probably from being too rich. Without knowing all the specifics, I imagine 3.7 ms equates to too much fuel.

[Showdown]

All those are on the list to check, first I have to deal with the battery I killed...

I recalibrated the TPS and now it's proper, it wasn't, same goes for the AFR sensor and temp sensor...

I have a massive air leak somewhere- probably the gaskets so new ones are on order, but I'm going to check all the hoses too.

Timing light just arrived so that's on the list for this weekend too.