When Well Enough Can't Be Left Alone; Backdate, EFI/ITB, AC, and more!

[Jonny042]

Also guessing that little appendage down and to the right is a rotary selector for screen display?

I looked back through old posts, it would appear Julian has been holding out on us for a while, as this bit has been visible in a few pics.

Looks like TPMS readout, too!

I'm going to vote for Julian as the one who incorporates FSD into an aircooled car first.

[TastyReuben]

Originally Posted by Showdown

While I had the dash apart, I replaced the hazard switch with an unmarked toggle, because I love unmarked toggles. I also turned an aluminum knob for the light switch; something a bit more...raw and homemade. I'm debating switching that with a toggle too but I have to do some reverse engineering of the light switch flow first.

been thinking about doing the same, was this straight forward switch wiring to swap? didn't want to upset the blinking/clicking function. would like to add a flashing LED indicator above as well.

[Showdown]

Ok, so years ago I hacked together a remote version of TunerStudio to run on a little screen via a raspberry pi a slew of relays and general hackery. ... it worked but was glitchy. It was a good proof of concept and convinced me that having data on the dash would be a nice feature.

Fast forward and I've spent the past 2 years on and off working on this: it took about 9 months of starts and stops to make the display and the chip even talk to each other. I taught myself C++ Arduino and PCB design.

It's running approximately 3000 lines of custom C++ code that I wrote on custom hardware that I built and lives in a custom 3D printed housing.


*It receives a CAN BUS signal from the MS3ProMini (or any Megasquirt product) and can display any metric that the ECU has. So any base data point from the ECU or any data from additional sensors are available to display.

*There's a GPS module and antenna so that real-time speed, distance, MPG, trip data, altitude, heading, etc.. can be calculated and displayed.

*There's a built in TPMS system that uses off the shelf sensors that screw onto the tire nipples.

*There's a real time clock with a 10-year battery for accurate time display.

*It all lives in a custom 3D-printed housing with matching Porsche bezel. There's a hidden button that allows rotating of the screens. The bezel has a magnetic phone holder (or not, I printed both versions.)

*It has an anti-glare screen so that you can actually see it...

I've been playing around with what works and looks good and I've had versions with one screen, 5 screens 10 screens, etc...

Some of the screens I've made are:
*The above master display with 18 data points
*A VDO clock
*A trip screen with distance, mpg and the like
*A text screen with 20+ data points in text only
*A TPMS screen with a graphic of the car
*A shift light that goes form clear to yellow, orange and red based on the RPM
*A blank screen for night driving

I can make just about any screen with any graphic and any available data.

The gauge has active bluetooth for TPMS monitoring and can become a WiFi access point so that the user can interact with it and select from the available screens, set the time, set the injector rating, set the redline shift limit, and reset the current trip metrics.

Here's a video of it on the bench in a previous iteration where I had several 4-gauge silver dot displays that I've since consolidated into the above



Here's a video of the phone/computer interface.




All that's needed is a CAN BUS H&L, 12v power and ground.

And here it is from a drive to the dyno. Cool to see real time MPG. The delta MPG for the current trip (since gauge power on) is incorrect as it's factoring in idle and non-moving time. I've corrected the code and just need to push it to the gauge.



I plan on running it for a while to iron out any bugs and then making some more. I have the fixings for 10 additional gauges right now. Currently I'm only working with Megasquirt. While it's certainly possible to adapt the CAN BUS code to any ECU that outputs non-proprietary CAN BUS, I would need an ECU to test against and eventually a car running said ECU to finalize the code.

I've looked at some of the other ECU CAN BUS protocols and they're strange looking and not standard. That means it's a lot more work to adapt code. So for right now it's Megasquirt-only.

I anticipate starting to take "orders" in late summer/fall. Each gauge will be completely bespoke- every screen and feature, all the graphics, fonts and colors will be unique to each gauge I make. It's possible that I can make a very stripped down basic stock Megasquirt gauge but we'll see...

[rwest]

Amazing work of pure genius!

Would it be possible to display an iPod or phone screen for people using those for their music?

[Showdown]

It's possible but not worth it. Same goes with maps and directions. We all already have supercomputers in our pockets so replicating those features isn't a priority.

I looked into turn by turn directions but you can't use apple maps or google maps- a third party app is needed and even then it's clunky and consumes a ton of memory on the chip so not really worth it.

[KMoore68]

Pretty impressive, well done!

Count me as a +1 for interest when you look to be closer to release!

[Showdown]

One of the cool things that can be done with additional sensors that run through the ECU is things like oil pressure warning lights. Yes, the Porsche gauge has a very cute little light that maybe comes on and maybe catches your attention...

As this engine has (in addition to the stock Porsche oil temp and pressure sensor) a secondary oil temp and pressure sensor in the TOD, we can use that data to create warnings. Currently, the screen will flash bright red rapidly (5 times a second) and display a gigantic "OEL" just in case you weren't sure what the hubub was about.

I'll try and simulate that and take a video at some point.

We can add tire alarms for low pressure, temp alarms, manifold pressure alarms, speed warnings, RPM warnings, etc...

And if someone wanted a track-specific gauge with a shift light and an audible buzzer/alarm... that's possible as well.

[Jonny042]

Julian, you are f&#*ing nuts. Love it!

[Showdown]

Slight departure form all the gauge talk...

Today was supposed to be a banner day.

This winter the car received quite a bit of work:

The Full Send Society showed up to assist in pulling the engine as I'd never done that before. The trans went home with Tony for a rebuild and a taller 5th.

The engine received M1 cams, again Tony swooped in from Wisconsin to assist.

The dizzy was replaced with wasted-spark COP. Maybe an odd choice but the goal was to control timing, not to go sequential spark. This necessitated a Clewett crank trigger, a hall sensor and a Clewett cam sensor.

The old MS2 was replaced with an MS3ProMini, all new electronics, motorsport-style harnesses and wiring and a general cleaning up of all the sensor wiring and whatnot. The entire engine electrical system is now separate from the original Porsche wiring (save for the oil temp, pressure, and idiot light) and all brand new.

The engine bay received a delete of everything unnecessary and a general clean up.

Small details like hard fuel lines on the engine, 3D printed harness holders, and the COP install were fun projects to figure out.

An IAT sensor and a combo oil pressure/temperature sensor was installed in the TOD to allow the ECU to get that data.

After getting the engine in, again with an assist from the boys, it took a few weeks to sort out some small issues- broken wires, crossed wires, etc... but eventually it fired up.















Tuning was mostly done on the road with the left foot dyno and the results were pretty good but that last 10% was missing.

So, today was dyno day. Kind of.

After dropping the car off at the tuner's shop hopes were high. I was mostly hoping to receive bak a refined version of what I had created with a focus on the ignition table as I was running a stock 2.7 curve.

Upon returning the tuner shared the following:

*The car was running super lean 20+ AFR.
*The car was running so rich that the shop smelled of fuel.
*Adding and removing fuel from the VE table had no effect on AFR.
*The injectors were trash and unresponsive.
*The AFR sensor was garbage.
*The AFR controller was garbage.
*The car was leaking and burning oil so the AFR readings can't be used.
*The car had no 3rd gear; the trans was shot.
*Etc... etc... etc...

It became clear to me that despite professing knowledge of 911s, this tuner was in over his head and gaslighting me hard.

The tune that the tuner loaded was trash and promptly replaced with the tune I had created. The car ran smoother, AFRs were where they were supposed to be, the car ran smooth and we were back to square one.

Upon returning I went to address an exhaust leak on cyl 1. The underside of the car was covered in oil- heretofore after several hundred miles it's been clean and dry. 2 hours with a tuner and it's covered in oil... hmmm. Turning to the SSIs only to find that one of the studs was spinning in the head; the threads were completely stripped. Fark.


So, filthy engine, pulled exhaust stud, and no tune. What a day.

This was the ignition map that the tuner created and I'd love the Pelican brain trust's opinion on it. Any thoughts of suggestions would be greatly appreciated as timing is somethign I'm still learning about.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Showdown

*The car was running super lean 20+ AFR.
*The car was running so rich that the shop smelled of fuel.

Which is it? Good help is so hard to find.

That really sucks. Obviously he did more harm than good. I've heard this story before. Hopefully he didn't permanently damage anything.

The question is WTF did he do to cause it to leak oil?

You might check the oil. He might have, determined it wasn't full enough, and added a few quarts?

[Jonny042]

First things first. Every time I see a COP setup and a screen shot of a timing map, I want to know, first and foremost, how do we KNOW, for certain, that the theoretical XX.X of timing on the map is XX.X timing in reality?

Has this been tested? On all 6 cylinders? And how?

(As an aside, I don't see why you don't run sequential spark if you have a cam sync.. unless you only have 3 ignition outputs? Come to think of that's probably exactly why, never mind!)

To my eye that's a bit too much timing to be putting in as a baseline/ WTF with the timing going to from 34 to 38 degrees at full load at between 6k and 7K RPM?

I'm assuming if you let the car idle it bounces around in the cells on the upper left that are all 10.0s? That block of 12 cells and the block of 14.0s below are the only ones that look like they were generated by a human being, and not the smoothing function.

I hate to give advice too late but I don't care how good a "tuner" this guy, or any guy, is, I wouldn't leave my car unattended with ANYONE.

Well, bygones. Hopefully it turns out to be a not too expensive learning opportunity and move on.

Julian, you have proven yourself to be talented, hardworking, resourceful and detail oriented. I would be very surprised if you didn't already have it figured out better than almost anyone. You said you are going after the last 10%. There isn't 10% between your 2.7 stock curve and a perfectly optimized curve. It's more like 2 or 3%.

[Showdown]

Hindsight 20/20...of course.

I didn't really want to leave the car but thus far it's been an incredibly difficult process of getting the car running; lots of problems (mostly of my own making) and I'm just tapped out mentally and emotionally (coupled with all the other stuff I have in my life...) The car is supposed to be fun and a distraction from all the other ills, and when it's adding to the stress, it feels toxic.

I figured it was going to be a minimal adjustment and dialing in. FWIW, the fuel map and the rest of the tune hardly changed at all which tells me that I did a pretty good job on my own and that this guy was fumbling around in the dark.

As for the oil... I haven't a clue and right now I don't really care.

Anyhow, spilled milk... on to fixing.

At this point, after talking with friends, I'm going to see if I can get the exhaust stud fixed before RR (or just run it leaky) and then try to build an ignition map that's safe and based on all the other 911 maps I've collected. Worst case I can default to a stock flat map until later. And like you said Jonny, the stock timing is fine- the car runs great with it now so I know that's an option.

To that last point... I'm in need of either a Stomski drilling joig to borrow or rent or the dimensions of the exhaust flange from a head so I can make my own jig. If someone can measure a head exhaust or SSI flange, or take a good photo with a ruler I'll design one and provide the 3D model for free to the community for printing.

I'd also really love an SSI wrench so that it doesn't take 5 hours and all the curse words getting them off and on...

[montauk]

Julian,
Is it possible to use the oil temperature and pressure sensors to drive the oil pressure gauge, oil temperature gauge, and idiot light through the ECU? Last week, I installed a Bosch temp/pressure gauge in my car, replacing the usual idiot light sensor. It's the same sensor I use for fuel pressure.
My plan is to activate the idiot light based on low oil pressure—say, anything below 10 PSI—using the ECU (Haltech R3). I'm hoping, though not entirely certain yet, that the DPO outputs can be used to control the existing gauges. I might even go a step further and use the ECU to manage the alternator.


Sorry about that not really a tuner guy. What a mess after all your hard work.

[Showdown]

The stock Porsche gauges and sensors run 12v, the digital sensors run 5v but give signals usually 0-3-3.3v so no it's not a direct analog. Depending on your ECU, it might be able to receive the 12v signal and convert it for use digitally... then you can use the stock sensors with the ECU.

ADC (analog to digital converters) can be created and that would allow the stock sensors to be fed to the gauge or visa versa but it's a lot of work and it gets messy.

I don't know about the haltech but I' assuming that it has plenty of outputs that can trigger a relay to turn the light on.

I've found it's easiest to just divorce the stock Porsche wiring/electronics from teh modern digital stuff.... it's so much work to make them work together and there are tons of other issues like the fact that Porsche barely knew wahst grounds were and digital systems depend on the grounds tremendously so noise in the Porsche system really messes the ECUs up...

[Jonny042]

I've eyed up that Bosch 0261230340 sensor as a way to lighten and simplify the engine compartment - just as an FYI to Julian, they are known to be prone to leaking. I did find a recommendation to torque it to 24nm max or they can break internally and leak. I also found a Bosch document that specs 35nm which sounds high.

[montauk]

This is the sensor I'm using
https://www.wiringspecialties.com/bosch-145-psi-dual-fluid-pressure-plus-temperature-sensor-m10-x-1-0/

Interesting about the gauges. I've read about people having success using PWM to drive old gauges. I'll need to create a table which shouldn't be too difficult - assuming this method works. For the idiot light, I'm just using an unused output to switch to ground when the sensor reports low oil pressure. The R3 has power distribution built in so no relays needed.

[Showdown]

For my combo oil temp/pressure sensor (that I use for the ECU) that threads into the idiot light sensor in the TOD I'm using one from Syltech:

https://www.syltechsensors.com/. (https://www.platinumracingproducts.com/en-us/products/mscs-10-bar-gauge-pressure-temperature-sensor)

They have a 10 bar: MSCS-4P-G10-N8

And a whole bunch of other cool sensors. Very nice piece of kit, highly recommend.

Thus far, after about 300 miles, no leaks.

[al lkosmal]

"To that last point... I'm in need of either a Stomski drilling joig to borrow or rent or the dimensions of the exhaust flange from a head so I can make my own jig. If someone can measure a head exhaust or SSI flange, or take a good photo with a ruler I'll design one and provide the 3D model for free to the community for printing.

I'd also really love an SSI wrench so that it doesn't take 5 hours and all the curse words getting them off and on..."


I have the SSI wrench and Stomski exhaust drilling jig that you can borrow.

regards,
al

[montauk]

Originally Posted by Showdown

For my combo oil temp/pressure sensor (that I use for the ECU) that threads into the idiot light sensor in the TOD I'm using one from Syltech:

https://www.syltechsensors.com/. (https://www.platinumracingproducts.com/en-us/products/mscs-10-bar-gauge-pressure-temperature-sensor)

They have a 10 bar: MSCS-4P-G10-N8

And a whole bunch of other cool sensors. Very nice piece of kit, highly recommend.

Thus far, after about 300 miles, no leaks.

I wish I'd known about that product. It's less expensive and uses the Deutsch connectors. I've become a big fan of the those connectors.

[montauk]

I just did a quick test of using a DPO outputs to drive the oil temperature and pressure gauges. It worked!!!! The idiot light is also working.

Does your ECU have DPO outputs?