The effects of a broken belt Re: idiots guide #2 - Page 2

Superman · 06-20-2003, 09:10 AM

I'm not going to directly disagree with the popular feeling here, but I cannot yet reach the same conclusion. I'd suggest more thinking/research before starting any teardown, particularly if you (like me) have other places to put your money. I suppose they could be parts of an oil control ring, but I'd be pretty surprized if they were scraped from a cylinder wall. If that were the case, a compression and leakdown test would reveal it.

Again, you may have a serious internal engine problem, but I'm not convinced yet. Do you think the fan stopped? Did the belt break?

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

The belt did break and the fan did stop.. If I had known it was stoped I would have pulled over but I didn't so I drove it up to 10 miles

osidak · 06-20-2003, 09:20 AM

I tend to agree with superman. I would think your engine would be running really rough if you had been shaving metal off the jugs. As I said before I would also think you would fogging for mosquitoes pretty well also.

I would start cheap and do a compression check and a leak down. I can bring a compression tester with me on the drive if you want to borrow it. I also found an old oil control ring that I will throw in the car as well.

Superman · 06-20-2003, 09:24 AM

Oops. Sorry. I guess that means there certainly could be some damage. Still (and assuming there is internal engine damage), I'd guess there's somebody out there who would recognize those squiggly shards and could tell you with some certainty where they came from. They look so much like drill shavings that I'd guess they were shaved by a turning shaft.

Superman · 06-20-2003, 09:26 AM

Okay, I looked at them again, and they look more like pieces of wire than internal engine shavings.

David E. Clark · 06-20-2003, 09:41 AM

Tim,

I've got the compression tester we used last time which you are always welcome to use and I just bought a compressor so if we can come up with a leak-down tester we can do that test as well. Let me know tomorrow.

David
'73 911E Targa

MBAtarga · 06-20-2003, 10:01 AM

They look like broken screen wire to me - they aren't curved, and if they were rings, I'd expect them to be mangled.

Dan Owens · 06-20-2003, 10:03 AM

I'd have to agree that whatever that metal is doesn't look good. What did the engine run like after you drove it 10 miles? How was/is the oil pressure. Have you started it since then? If so how does it run now?

What's the dimensions on that metal wire/shaving - whatever it is? It does look like part of an oil control ring. I don't know enough to say for sure but depending on the size of those I'd think you wouldn't have shavings that big without doing some really major damage. If so you'd have known / heard it / felt it while the engine was running during your 10 mile drive. At least I'd think you would. I'd definitely do a compression test. Was there more stuff in the oil when you drained it? Have you opened up the filter and checked inside it?

vader1851 · 06-20-2003, 10:13 AM

Tim's brother here. He did perform surgery on the oil filter, and found a few more shavigs in there. They are less than .5 mm wide and less than .5 in long.

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

THey do look like small fragments of wire, except they're kinked at regular intervals. I'll bring them on the FUN run tomarrow and get a second opinion.

The oil pressure droped and the oil temp went up. The temp was up to about 215 and the pressure dropped to about 13psi @2k

dtw · 06-20-2003, 10:25 AM

I think we're missing the point here- it's not necessarily important where these bits came from. They are now throughout the engine (as evidenced by their presence in the sump and filter), and they are large bits of ferrous metal. The engine cannot continue to run safely with these bits in the engine. A conscientious person would now tear down the engine.

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

I went over to dtw's house today and we discovered what the bits were. They're bits from the windage screen. Next question.. How could that happen without any small chunks anywhere in the sump, sumpscreen or drain plugs?

Jim Richards · 06-23-2003, 03:47 AM

Windage screen? What's that?

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

There's a screen above your sump screen just under the crankshaft webs. That's what the wires are from.

Jim Richards · 06-23-2003, 04:49 AM

Thanks Tim. So, is that stuff all over the place?

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

there are just about a dozen of them with no shavings of anything else. Dave and I surmised something broke, broke the screen and lodged somewhere.

Jim Richards · 06-23-2003, 05:16 AM

Do you think a complete teardown is required or can you just pull your p's & c's?

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

I will most definitly a complete teardown. There's no load at all on that screen and it's a tough screen. Something hit it pretty hard to disintergrate that screen.

Dan Owens · 06-23-2003, 10:17 AM

That's good that you seem to have a line on what they are. I don't know how that screen would end up in pieces like you have though. I would think that if something came loose inside the engine and hit the screen it wouldn't shatter it like that unless a motor piece went through it and ripped it apart. If that happened I'd think you would have heard and felt the engine come apart. Have you started the engine since the belt broke? Can you see up inside if you remove the sump cover?

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

I've removed the pump screen but I haven't looked up in there yet (hope to tonight)

I didn't feel anything when it did happen. If I had i wouldn't have kept driving it.