Steve Wong/911chips.com

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by stephen1070

Thank you Frank - I have enjoyed seeing your car on several occasions during the Monterey Auto week and I have a file of pictures for reference.

I do want to memorialize my mods and the proven BHP for 'Dave' - keep in mind my 3.2 has never been opened, good compression tests and 132,000 mi, your results may vary.

I exclusively use Chinese oil filters and Venezuelan oil.

Decat pipe 21 bhp
Stock exh cut open, cut up, welded back up 8 bhp
Cup air box 13 bhp
Enlarged TB 15 bhp
Extrude Hone intake 2.9 bhp
Clean air filter 7.1 bhp
SW Chip +/- 67 total
Round off or up with over rev 70 BHP

I'm glad you enjoyed seeing them. Brought my white '87 last year and my Gemini '87 in '23. Was hoping to have my '89 done in time for this year, but that's looking unlikely. For the first time in a long time, I'm not bringing a car this year.




That's a HELL of a power kit you have there! Subjectively tho, how's the drivability? I'd be worried that all that extra BHP comes in only below idle speed (or is it only above redline?).


Speaking of devolving, I believe this thread has arrived. Apologies to the OP.

Quasi back on topic, I love the objective power gains on my SW chipped & tuned cars, but I LOVE the driveability even more. Smoother and more powerful... Two great tastes that go GREAT together.

[stephen1070]

Regardless of how accurate my dyno may be - the car is great with all these parts. The partially gutted exhaust likely did nothing.

I'm wanting the larger dia 3.2 SSI's just to remove most of the government compliance bits off the car.

Ultimately I rebuild the engine with the internal compliance parts removed.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by flee27

I know this is not new or revolutionary feedback but I like to talk positively about good products/experiences. As we all know performance improvements on air cooled Porsches in not a cheap thing.
IMO at $600 this chip is the best value for engine performance (good maintenance aside).
...
There are plenty of raving testimonials about this product so this isn’t new feedback, I am just affirming it.
This is the most impactful $600 you can spend on your car as far as engine performance.

You should really dyno it before making such claims.

Otherwise, as someone said, this reads like yet another OIL thread.

[flee27]

Originally Posted by pmax

You should really dyno it before making such claims.

Otherwise, as someone said, this reads like yet another OIL thread.

Respectfully I disagree. I am not making claims of any specific gains in HP or Torque. Just the improved drivability, and I don't need a dyno to notice this.

As many others have also affirmed, the SW chip makes a very noticeable improvement of the drivability of the car.

Something that makes a noticeable improvement for so little invested is worthy of positive feedback IMO. That is my only intended message.

Best
Foster

[pmax]

Originally Posted by flee27

Respectfully I disagree. I am not making claims of any specific gains in HP or Torque. Just the improved drivability, and I don't need a dyno to notice this.

As many others have also affirmed, the SW chip makes a very noticeable improvement of the drivability of the car.

Something that makes a noticeable improvement for so little invested is worthy of positive feedback IMO. That is my only intended message.

Best
Foster

Oh well, I tried.

Maybe someday someone would and this technical forum will see more pretty charts.

[proporsche]

[QUOTE

I have a few decades worth of real world experience with off the shelf 3.2 chips (SW, Weltmeister, Superchips, Autothority, Sal Carceller, etc) in MANY different 3.2s.[/QUOTE]

same as you i have used all of the above-(i knew Trevor at superchips)and finally when i moved to France i contacted Steve W. he set it up for my euro 85 with 98-100 octane gas.
Runs like a champ


Ivan

[ant7]

May be of interest!
Ant.

https://www.911chips.com/dyno.html

Originally Posted by pmax

Oh well, I tried.

Maybe someday someone would and this technical forum will see more pretty charts.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by proporsche

[QUOTE

I have a few decades worth of real world experience with off the shelf 3.2 chips (SW, Weltmeister, Superchips, Autothority, Sal Carceller, etc) in MANY different 3.2s.

same as you i have used all of the above-(i knew Trevor at superchips)and finally when i moved to France i contacted Steve W. he set it up for my euro 85 with 98-100 octane gas.
Runs like a champ


Ivan[/QUOTE]

While the Weltmeister chips obviously claimed more power, we installed them on some 3.2s in an attempt to mitigate part-throttle drivability / surge issues.

Agree with your "Runs like a champ" comment. I'm happy with my former '88 & '87, both dyno tuned and my off the shelf chipped '87 & '89.

I wish I would have recorded all ten dyno pulls on the black '88 as the difference in sound between the baseline pull and the ninth tweak of the maps was amazing. Not that an open air box lid, Euro pre-muffler and a Dansk 84mm sport muffler sounded bad before, but it definitely sounded healthier post-tune.








My white '87 came with an off the shelf SW pre-muffler + sport muffler chip already installed. With a Dansk pre-muffler and Monty muffler it offers a unique sound.

[stephen1070]

Love the Pirelli tires on the blue car Frank! I'm too chicken to get those because I want more grip that large tread block designs provide. I did get CN36's for the old car.

My mind dyno allows more BHP than anyone else can claim!

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by stephen1070

Love the Pirelli tires on the blue car Frank! I'm too chicken to get those because I want more grip that large tread block designs provide. I did get CN36's for the old car.

My mind dyno allows more BHP than anyone else can claim!

The P7 Colleziones are great. Not quite as good an all around tire as the Yoko A-008Ps that I have since normalized on for the street. The A052s are the bomb, but not period-correct look. Weather permitting, I run the A052s for road rallys.

I tried a set of 225 + 245 R Comps, including my one and only track day at Laguna Seca in Gemini. TONS of grip, but... the 8s w/ 225s up front worsened the steering feel (and the wide body steering feel is already not as good as the narrow bodies out of the gate). There's an argument to be made for less grip being more on these cars in terms of steering feel and how alive / playful the cars feel when you're hustling them in the corners.


Grippy AF!...

[scarceller]

The majority of air/fuel issues in these cars come down to few things in priority order:
1 - Intake air leaks
2 - Faulty injector(s)
3 - Faulty air meters
4 - Bad fuel delivery or fuel pressure

My MAF system replaces old injectors with modern day disc 4 hole injectors, these are Bosch racing 34lb injectors. The system also replaces the old barn door AFM with modern day Hitachi MAF blade. Then system is fully tuned to properly run MAF and modern injectors.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by famoroso

The P7 Colleziones are great. Not quite as good an all around tire as the Yoko A-008Ps that I have since normalized on for the street. The A052s are the bomb, but not period-correct look. Weather permitting, I run the A052s for road rallys.

I tried a set of 225 + 245 R Comps, including my one and only track day at Laguna Seca in Gemini. TONS of grip, but... the 8s w/ 225s up front worsened the steering feel (and the wide body steering feel is already not as good as the narrow bodies out of the gate). There's an argument to be made for less grip being more on these cars in terms of steering feel and how alive / playful the cars feel when you're hustling them in the corners.


Grippy AF!...

The live feel is more a function of the scrub radius, which comes from the wheel ET

wheel tire width and series spec affect grip which can also contribute to feel but not as much or in the same way.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The live feel is more a function of the scrub radius, which comes from the wheel ET

wheel tire width and series spec affect grip which can also contribute to feel but not as much or in the same way.

Fair enough. Soooooo... What, if anything,.can be done to improve WB steering feel?

Somewhat separately, as much as I'm a 16" Fuchs, especially Fuchs Evo, fan boy / devotee, I think my '89 M491 "hot rod" build (eventually shooting for ~2,500 pounds & ~350 hp) is likely gonna need more rubber than my current 205 & 245 happy place. If I do Ruf 9&10 x 17 wheels, what are the recommended tire sizes? I'm not looking to cram the absolute largest tires possible under the fenders as I would A) prefer to avoid fitment issues and B) attempt to preserve some steering feel.

BTW, I know we've gone completely off the rails / this post's original topic.Such is life in the big (Pelican Parts forum) city.

Thx!

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The live feel is more a function of the scrub radius, which comes from the wheel ET

wheel tire width and series spec affect grip which can also contribute to feel but not as much or in the same way.

Fair enough. Soooooo... What, if anything,.can be done to improve WB steering feel?

Somewhat separately, as much as I'm a 16" Fuchs, especially Fuchs Evo, fan boy / devotee, I think my '89 M491 "hot rod" build (eventually shooting for ~2,500 pounds & ~350 hp) is likely gonna need more rubber than my current 205 & 245 happy place. If I do Ruf 9&10 x 17 wheels, what are the recommended tire sizes? I'm not looking to cram the absolute largest tires possible under the fenders as I would A) prefer to avoid fitment issues and B) attempt to preserve some steering feel.

BTW, I know we've gone completely off the rails / this post's original topic.Such is life in the big (Pelican Parts forum) city.

Drove this Ruf wheel "laden" '89 930 last fall. It and it's wheels "left a mark."





Thx!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Fair enough. Soooooo... What, if anything,.can be done to improve WB steering feel?

Somewhat separately, as much as I'm a 16" Fuchs, especially Fuchs Evo, fan boy / devotee, I think my '89 M491 "hot rod" build (eventually shooting for ~2,500 pounds & ~350 hp) is likely gonna need more rubber than my current 205 & 245 happy place. If I do Ruf 9&10 x 17 wheels, what are the recommended tire sizes? I'm not looking to cram the absolute largest tires possible under the fenders as I would A) prefer to avoid fitment issues and B) attempt to preserve some steering feel.

BTW, I know we've gone completely off the rails / this post's original topic.Such is life in the big (Pelican Parts forum) city.

Drove this Ruf wheel "laden" '89 930 last fall. It and it's wheels "left a mark."





Thx!

The thing that determines s/r wrt the wheel is it's ET, higher numerical ET = lower s/r

a 911 w/ 7ET23.3 has a s/r of 52.4mm

a 930 w/ the 21mm spacer, whether from the o/s hub on late 930 or the 21mm spacer of early 930, has a s/r of 73.4mm

use a wider wheel like the early 911 Ruf 8s w/ ET 30 and the s/r goes down by the difference in Ets

the early Ruf 9 w/ ET17.7 would raise the s/r compared to a 7 ET23.3

RSR w/ the 21mm spacer and w/ 9ET3 has a s/r of 72.7mm

similarly track changes w/ ET changes, a 930 w/ 7ET23.3 wheels has a front track of 1432mm, 60mm wider than a 911 w/ the same wheel

the Ruf 8ET17.7 would reduce track by 35.4mm

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The thing that determines s/r wrt the wheel is it's ET, higher numerical ET = lower s/r

a 911 w/ 7ET23.3 has a s/r of 52.4mm

a 930 w/ the 21mm spacer, whether from the o/s hub on late 930 or the 21mm spacer of early 930, has a s/r of 73.4mm

use a wider wheel like the early 911 Ruf 8s w/ ET 30 and the s/r goes down by the difference in Ets

the early Ruf 9 w/ ET17.7 would raise the s/r compared to a 7 ET23.3

RSR w/ the 21mm spacer and w/ 9ET3 has a s/r of 72.7mm

similarly track changes w/ ET changes, a 930 w/ 7ET23.3 wheels has a front track of 1432mm, 60mm wider than a 911 w/ the same wheel

the Ruf 8ET17.7 would reduce track by 35.4mm

Thanks Bill, I appreciate the explanation. I'll go an whiteboard a visualization.

If I do Ruf 9&10 x 17 wheels on a 930 / M491, what are the recommended tire sizes? I assume there are a few pairing options? What are the aggressive, middle and conservative sizing options? I'm not a teenager anymore, so would prefer to avoid fitment issues.

[PopsRacer]

not to get back on topic but I installed a SW chip (and a Fabspeed pre-muffler) on Thursday and Sat ran with them in our local PCA auto-x. The car definitely felt more alive and I was spinning the rears more than usual. Chirped 2nd on a couple of launches, and I am really not that aggressive. Did I measure anything? No. I told onlookers I did a 450hp E85 tune to see if I could get a laugh. My engine is kind of beat inside so I am not sure it would even be useful anecdotal data. (worn valve guides, pitted cams, oil leaks… the usual)
I also replaced the fuel strainer from the tank, although the old (36 yo) one did not look terrible.(which is good news)

re: things I don’t understand - I have no idea how you squish a fuel map into 8k of code. Obviously this was not written in Java You have an idle switch (use idle map?), a WOT switch (use WOT map) but in-between there is a lot of ground (isn’t there?) Amazing stuff however it’s done. Kudos!

Starting seems a little better (fewer cranks), idle is perfect and stable, and it feels more like a good set of carbs now without that hysteresis I generally associate with EFI. Crisper, more lively? Hints of gasoline & pilsner? (Maybe) The top end seems better too. I don’t want to have to shift bc it is pulling so eagerly now.

Niggles? My anti-static wrist band’s elastic is failing just to remind me that I am getting old. Time for a new one I guess. #sigh

Overall the directions were clear and the process lacked drama - which is a good thing(tm) and the thing makes a noticeable difference, whatever that means.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by PopsRacer

not to get back on topic but I installed a SW chip (and a Fabspeed pre-muffler) on Thursday and Sat ran with them in our local PCA auto-x. The car definitely felt more alive and I was spinning the rears more than usual. Chirped 2nd on a couple of launches, and I am really not that aggressive. Did I measure anything? No. I told onlookers I did a 450hp E85 tune to see if I could get a laugh. My engine is kind of beat inside so I am not sure it would even be useful anecdotal data. (worn valve guides, pitted cams, oil leaks… the usual)
I also replaced the fuel strainer from the tank, although the old (36 yo) one did not look terrible.(which is good news)

re: things I don’t understand - I have no idea how you squish a fuel map into 8k of code. Obviously this was not written in Java You have an idle switch (use idle map?), a WOT switch (use WOT map) but in-between there is a lot of ground (isn’t there?) Amazing stuff however it’s done. Kudos!

Starting seems a little better (fewer cranks), idle is perfect and stable, and it feels more like a good set of carbs now without that hysteresis I generally associate with EFI. Crisper, more lively? Hints of gasoline & pilsner? (Maybe) The top end seems better too. I don’t want to have to shift bc it is pulling so eagerly now.

Niggles? My anti-static wrist band’s elastic is failing just to remind me that I am getting old. Time for a new one I guess. #sigh

Overall the directions were clear and the process lacked drama - which is a good thing(tm) and the thing makes a noticeable difference, whatever that means.

No real knowledge required for "performance" tuning, just a PC, an app, & an EPROM programmer. Even construction workers can do it;



https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1177414-10-mpg-3-2-can-t-find-where-fuel-going-11.html

Laughable isn't?

For those who really can program, a PC app for "tuning" can be easily written in C/C+. If you disassemble the EPROM code, you could find the needed bytes to change in the assembly code.
A Google search might even find a "performance" tuning app you could download to your PC, maybe even a Mac version, the wonders of technology and the naivete of many!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Thanks Bill, I appreciate the explanation. I'll go an whiteboard a visualization.

If I do Ruf 9&10 x 17 wheels on a 930 / M491, what are the recommended tire sizes? I assume there are a few pairing options? What are the aggressive, middle and conservative sizing options? I'm not a teenager anymore, so would prefer to avoid fitment issues.

first choice
245/40 & 275/35 x17 choices are Pirelli P Zero Rosso or Nanking CR-S or Hoosier R7

second choice 235/45 & 255/40 x17 BR RE-71RS or Hankook R-S4 or Maxxis RC-1
etc there are lots of possibilities

235/405 & 260/40 Michelin MPS4S isn't tpp bad

I'd avoid anything w/ 275/40 x17 as they are just too tall for most 911 drivetrains, you really want to keep the rears under 25.5" OD( <25" ideally) and ~20mm width stagger f/r

[pmax]

While the experts are here, I'll ask.

Originally Posted by PopsRacer

not to get back on topic but I installed a SW chip (and a Fabspeed pre-muffler) on Thursday and Sat ran with them in our local PCA auto-x. The car definitely felt more alive and I was spinning the rears more than usual. Chirped 2nd on a couple of launches, and I am really not that aggressive. Did I measure anything? No. I told onlookers I did a 450hp E85 tune to see if I could get a laugh. My engine is kind of beat inside so I am not sure it would even be useful anecdotal data. (worn valve guides, pitted cams, oil leaks… the usual)
I also replaced the fuel strainer from the tank, although the old (36 yo) one did not look terrible.(which is good news)

re: things I don’t understand - I have no idea how you squish a fuel map into 8k of code. Obviously this was not written in Java You have an idle switch (use idle map?), a WOT switch (use WOT map) but in-between there is a lot of ground (isn’t there?) Amazing stuff however it’s done. Kudos!

CAT delete gains how much performance ?

Starting seems a little better (fewer cranks),

Interesting, is the crank to ignition sequence modified too ?

idle is perfect and stable,

Closed loop idle control works very well.

and it feels more like a good set of carbs now without that hysteresis I generally associate with EFI.

By that, surely, you aren't referring to the idle.

Crisper, more lively? Hints of gasoline & pilsner? (Maybe) The top end seems better too. I don’t want to have to shift bc it is pulling so eagerly now.

Running a richer map would do some of that. How much are you gaining ?