HELP!.....my new 930 has undisclosed damage...

86930 · 08-12-2003, 02:29 PM

I just need to vent and get some input about what options (if any) I may have...

I recently bought a very low mileage, reportedly "mint condition" 930. I had a full PPI inspection which turned up the usual minor oil leaks, excellent leakdown numbers, etc. I expected some minor oil leaks (just about every car I looked at and PPI'd had them) but my major concern with a low mileage car was the leakdown numbers. I was thrilled to see them come back as well as they did (3%-2%-4%-3%-2%-2%)

It was what I considered to be a thorough PPI (about 4 hours) at a cost of $255, at a shop recommended by people on this board. (No, I won't name the shop here). While washing the car over the weekend, I noticed some paint imperfections along the rubber gaskets near the rear window. At first, I thought I might be just some wax residue hung up in the rubber. I let it go, not wanting to even think there might be an issue.

Today, I took the car to a body shop to get a price on painting the Fuchs to match the car color. The body shop guy noticed that the finish on the passenger side wheels was slightly different from the driver side. This prompted him to take a close look the whole car. We discovered the entire passenger side has been repainted. He said that it was a good paint job, but was fairly obvious since there was some overspray on the underside of the car, which should have been obvious to the mechanic during the PPI.

I don't know what kind of damage there was. I suppose the best case scenario is that it was just a key job on the entire side of the car, and did not involve an accident. I almost don't want to know. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Anyone had experience with a situation like this, and what (if any) recourse do I have?

My range of emotions in the past week

Formerly Steve Wilkinson · 08-12-2003, 02:49 PM

Hmmm...how has it affected the car? Is it bent? Won't track straight?

Some people insist on marrying virgins. Others realize that it really doesn't make that big a difference.

Stephan

tiorio · 08-12-2003, 02:57 PM

I think it really depends on if there was a lot of actual damage to the car or something as simple as a scratch down one side.

The fact that the finish on the wheels differed between sides leads me to belive that something bad happened but you need more information to decide how to proceed, IMHO...

Good luck!

Hetmann · 08-12-2003, 03:00 PM

The mechanic probably did notice the overspray, but so what. It's a 17 year old car. If you want to know the history, ask the PO. If you didn't notice it before... It's not that noticable. Get over it and enjoy the car.

yelcab1 · 08-12-2003, 03:01 PM

A 17 year old car is expected to have some blemishes cosmetically. It would be extremely unreasonable to expect that it is not repainted for cosmetic reasons (like door dings, keyed, or even a slight fender bender)

It is my opinion that a mechanic, while doing a PPI, will likely focus his/her attention on the mechanicals of the car (engine, brakes, tranny, suspension) as well as any real well known chassis problems. Unless, of course, you have specifically told them to look for cosmetic issues carefully and they have ignored it. It may be beyond their expertise to note cosmetic flaws, you know.

So, unless the frame is bent and repaired incorrectly, and that the paint is so mismatched that you need to repaint the whole thing, consider it a good purchase.

Mint, sometime, means "restored to mint" condition.

MarkP · 08-12-2003, 03:02 PM

I would say go back to the big smile and enjoy your car! You didn't say how many miles were on it, but it doesn't sound like you were trying to buy a garage queen or a concours car.

Any car that is driven will have issues during it's life. For example, I recently found out (through prior owner research) that the 60 Roadster race car I bought has been rolled and been t-boned during it's life. It has always been repaired properly and now it has great history and pantina.

beepbeep · 08-12-2003, 03:11 PM

Bah, i discovered that my 930 had it's rear left fender completly replaced...it was dead-straight anyway. Don't worry too much...

Mr9146 · 08-12-2003, 03:23 PM

Go 130mph and slam on the brakes. If the car stops in a straight line, party on. If not, take it back to the body shop and have the guy toss it on a jig. Either way, things'll be fine. If these cars are repaired correctly after an accident, they only get better ... like a pair of shoes that feel more comfortable the more you wear them.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

If you really want to be thorough, you need to get a PPI from a mechanic *and* a good body shop.

In this case, if the frame is straight, it shouldn't really care (unless you have to have a virgin). Lots of people have the hoods and/or doors resprayed for a number of minor reasons (sandblasted, keying, etc). If anything, enjoy your car MORE knowing that it isn't perfect, and if you get a door ding or take a rock, you won't be fixing a virgin.

carmad · 08-12-2003, 03:37 PM

Lots of 930's have accident damage from PO who didn't learn how to drive them correctly. Mine had left rear quarter panel and driver door damage which was repaired by a real craftsman. It drives and handles better than most 930's (my mechanics words), brakes and tracks in a straight line, and looks fantastic.
If your car drives and looks good, I wouldn't worry too much, drive it hard and enjoy it.

350HP930 · 08-12-2003, 03:51 PM

I knew that the front of my 930 had been reshot to take out the rock chips since I could recognize as much and the PO admitted it when I asked him about it.

It took me a couple of months to notice the more subtle signs that the left front fender had also been changed some time in the car's life.

Carmad has a good point that lots of people lose control of their 930s and accidents will happen. Just make sure you don't have a bondo queen.

My guess is that someone must have messed up the left fender and headlight ring some time in my cars past but the underlying unibody and mounting points are perfect so I don't sweat it cause its nothing more than a replaced bolt on part.

I'm with the general concensus that if the chassis is not tweaked and the paint work was a quality job enjoy what you got.

Put your focus on modding your engine and showing the other cars out there who is boss.

caliber60 · 08-12-2003, 04:42 PM

I think the owner should have tell you the condition before claiming it's a "mint" condition car. For my definition, "mint" is perfect in everyway, just like a show car sitting in the show room. With no paint job or replacement. If a car has been resprayed, you can not call it "mint" anymore. The term "mint" has been abused too much. I bet you pay additonal 3-4 thousands because it's "mint" condition. It's probably too late now to negociate.

Formerly Steve Wilkinson · 08-12-2003, 05:31 PM

I doubt that the term "mint condition" has any more legal validity than does saying it's a "cool car." New is new, used is used, never damaged is never damaged, mint is...an after-dinner candy?

Stephan

Eric Coffey · 08-12-2003, 06:12 PM

Even if the guy told you there was no previous damage, you have little recourse. If you bought it from a dealer, and they guaranteed that the car had no prior damage, and gave it to you in writing, that would be a different story. So, for peace of mind/safety, go over the car thoroughly to make sure everything is in order (before you go pushing it to 130mph+). I would check for non-factory looking welds in the front trunk area and rear engine bay where it meets the rear fender. Check to see if the front fender bolts in the trunk are new or have marks from re-use. Also, look for newer-looking suspension components (shocks, trailing arm, A-arm, etc.) on that side of the car. Other things to check include panel gaps (fender-to-hood, door-to-fender, door-to-rocker, deck lid-to-rear fender, etc.), and compressed bumper bellows.

CrossT · 08-12-2003, 06:31 PM

No big deal. If it were significant it would have been noticed in the PPI and by yourself. Sounds like it was a good restore job. I discovered after purchasing my car that the two doors and the passenger rear quarter were repainted -- bothered me at first. I can get then stripped and resprayed in the future when I don't have anything better to do, just enjoy it!

todd
86 cpe

86930 · 07:27 PM

Thanks everyone, your comments are reassuring.

When I started looking for a 930, I was NOT looking for a garage queen. When I came across this car, it was the color I wanted and I was under the impression it was a MINT condition garage queen with only 17K miles. After looking at a lot of "drivers", I saw the $$$ adding up. For this reason, I paid a good price for a car with no apparent problems.

I have been accustomed to buying Porsches for a fair price, then driving them for a year or two, and selling for about what I paid, before moving on to the next Porsche (yes, I'm fickle and quickly become bored). I realize that cars are really not a good "investment", but I have never gotten really hurt. This car looks like it could be the one that stumps me on my buying/selling philosophy, as I am not the kind of person to misrepresent what I now know about the car.

I just can't help but be P.O.'d that the thorough PPI did not reveal this. They made note of some of the most insignificant things, but failing to mention overspray on the underbody seems like a real oversight! I am now also mad that they did not let me walk around under the car while they had it on the lift. I think I would have noticed it.

I appreciate all your comments, they sure help me to see this from a different perspective, and hopefully I will relax and take this all in stride. (I think I'm past the stage of slitting my wrists).

89911 · 08-12-2003, 07:28 PM

Most PPI's do not care about Body work or damage as long as it is not effecting the cars mechanical abilities. I take my cars to a good paint shop and ask them to tell me if it's been painted. They will know.

john70t · 08-12-2003, 07:41 PM

Did Carfax give any info?
If the cost of repair to the value is over a certain percentage(60%? I don't know), it's deemed salvage title, but I think it can be rebuilt by anyone and put on the road after a brake/lamp inspection.
This will stay with the title unless it's bounced(re-titled) through certain states that allows the "salvage" part to dissapear. Forgot what these were.
It was probably a crunched flare that was repaired well enough to fool anyone but a paint-man in bright light.
Forgetaboutit. AutoX time and enjoy!

86930 · 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89911
Most PPI's do not care about Body work or damage as long as it is not effecting the cars mechanical abilities.

I'm not sure I agree with you on that. Most PPI's that I have had done did make point out any noteworthy issues with body work, paint, rust etc. IMHO, a repaint of one side of a car would be something to point out. Again, I fail to see how it was missed with the obvious overspray on the underside.

Oh, boy, I thought I was getting over this...

86930 · 08-12-2003, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john70t
Did Carfax give any info?

The Carfax was clean. No salvage title, No reported accidents etc.