3.6 Swap into G50 Carrera?

[Mike Feinstein]

Nothing imminent but for future planning purposes (of course)....I'm wondering what would be involved in a 3.6 swap into an 89 G50 Carrera. Any trans mods or would it bolt right up? I've got a Centerforce clutch /KEP PP so that part is ready.

It seems like it should be quite easy but since this is not a lightweight car (2900 lbs) will the benefits be worth it? Current 3.2 has almost 80k on it. No indication of valve guide wear yet but when the day comes, a swap might be an interesting option.

Is anyone putting 3.6's in later Carreras?

Thanks,

[Bill Verburg]

It should pretty much bolt up. A G50 trans and associated clutch/pp etc is the same no matter what year or how many gears.

Lew Ledyard just put a vram in his late Carrera.

[Lewis Ledyard]

Like Bill said, I just put a '95 or '96 Euro Vario in my '88 cab. It flat out hauls. Someone who drove my car got back into their slightly breathed upon Targa of similar year and he thought that something must be wrong with his car. There is a big difference. By doing the swap you are going from about 210 horses to close to 300, plus more torque.

It is easy to catch the fever (whatever it may be: mods to your car, bike, house, wife) and have great expectations. Often the reality does not live up to those expectations once the project is complete. Happily, this is not one of those times. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I am really happy with the car. It is so much fun to drive. I haven't turned on the radio once and almost every shift is made at the redline.

[Rick Lee]

I think all you'll need is a new flywheel and exhaust system, which is where it can get expensive. As far as I know Patrick Motorsport is the only place that sells the right flywheel for this stuff. Exhaust options are almost endless.

[cab83_750]

Dang,

This is the kind of thread that makes me keep my '95 993 engine, finish my current project with a 3.6 930, stow away the completed project........ then, buy another tub!

Have fun and hope you join the conversion gang.

BTW, I am thinking about getting the G50 (knowing I would have to cut the torsion tube) and nicking the 915.

Aaaarrrgh!

[nostatic]

Curt did this with an 88 (I think). He also backdated it. Rust free honkin' R Gruppe car with a G50.

[rattlsnak]

Mikey, if you're going to go that far, go with a turbo engine instead.

[Jack Olsen]

If I had a Carrera and ten grand to goose it with, I might go for suspension improvements before a swap, with maybe bigger brakes, too.

A swap will get you an extra 50-60 hp, and a meatier torque curve. But if you're tracking the car, then another way to go would be aggressive weight reduction, really stiff coil springs, re-positioned suspension mounting points, and chassis stiffening up the ying-yang.

Not to knock the 3.6 swap, but a 3.2 is already a pretty powerful motor -- it's just that the Carrera is on the heavy and soft side.

(Of course, I'm assuming you want to track the car, and that you value overall quickness over straight-line speed -- which certainly doesn't apply to everyone.)

[Mike Feinstein]

Thanks for the feedback.

Lew....I think the forum would be interested in more details about your swap....I know I would. What was involved? Rough cost estimates? Was it DIY or pro? Any tranny mods necessary? Did you get your engine with a harness and DME? What was the toughest / costliest part? Your description of the performance improvement is enticing to say the least.

Rattlesnak...honestly, I've owned a 930 as well as two NA 911's. I seem to prefer the power delivery and feel of the NA cars.

Jack...all good points but, the suspension is pretty much where I want it for my purposes. 22 and 29 t-bars, bushings, sway bar, Koni sports, lowered, corner-balanced, etc. I use it for DE, auto-x and I drive it on the street (so monoballs, coil-overs, etc., are out of the question). I'm not willing to give up AC for example. In DE it's often frustrating to be on the bumper of another car through the turns only to be left in the dust on the back straight....lap after lap. Also, on the street, it would be just plain fun to have better acceleration (below 4500 rpm's) than a typical mini-van.

Bottom line, is just as Lew mentioned....bang for the buck. When rebuild day comes, I'd hate to spend a small fortune on cams, P's and C's, etc., only to achieve a moderate gain. With a 3.6 it seems I could still pass emissions (Atlanta) with (removeable) cats installed and gain some seat-of-the-pants fun for about the same money....no?

[89911]

Mike, you seem to be on an eternal search for power from your 3.2 Since we have similar cars, I think I can give you a few opinions. If your car is basically in good shape, your going down the long road of no return by swapping the engines, etc. Yes, everone says the'll "never sell" their car but in this case you will most likely never sell it from the tremdous loss you'll incure on resale. I know, I know, resale schmesale, but just the thought of having a car that will take a 50% hit if you see something else would scare me. And you do seem to be less then enchanted with your cars performance. If I were looking for a next project, it would be a 993 lightweight. Find some old 993 with high milage, even a salvage title and go to town on it. You'll have the 993 engine with all its power, plus a much much better suspension and brakes to handle everything. Just need to do some severe lightening and maybe a few suspension items. A 3.6 conversion in an old style car is just the start of add ons to handle the power.

[KTL]

I believe glickster (Rich Glickel) had his 87 equipped with a 3.6 by DeMan Motorsports in NY.

[Mike Feinstein]

Michael,

Way too much logic for this time of day! Problem is, I love my car....I just want it to go faster. Not doing anything imminently anyway. Mostly just trying to consider all options. I still think about supercharging also...in moments of weakness.

For now, I clearly need to focus on becoming a better driver. But the irrational side of me wants those ponies.....bad!

[rattlsnak]

Mike a 930 with 270 HP and a C2T engine in your car with 400HP is a big difference! Night and day difference in performance delivery also. Zero lag with the C2T. My SC was a friggin rocket. I do understand what you mean though, thats why Im going with the 3.6 in my 72.

[Kevin Stewart]

I just got my 3.6 running and will say that the 3.0 doesnt even come close, i have driven a 3.2 it was coll, but the 3.6 is pretty amazing, but I have taken a bunch of weight off, when i bought the 3.6 i pretty much came to the conclucion that i would never recover half what i have in the car, that maybe something to look at, also, you can do the math all day long but its 12 g to do it, by the time you get the motor, the updates to install it, and the small items like B&B headers, etc, some of the cash is just updating, new plugs rear seal, etc, if you do go with headers I have the B&B stuff and it is loud, Because you have the g50 you should be able to run the 3.6 exhaust, im not sure about the clutch stuff, regardless contact Steve Timmins at instant-g He should be able to tell you exactly what parts you need, you also want to make sure the parts you get have not been on another conversion, Kevin

[JeremyD]

Why not just get a 964? I know these are the bastard step children of the 911 world - but I think from a value standpoint they are the next great starter platform. I had a 1990 C2 Targa - Coilover's ABS - lighten it up a little and you'll have a hell of a car. I definitely think my old 964 was faster than my 3.2 Carrera.

You can pick up a decent one for almost a direct trade (or less) for yours - and then go from there - FVD and ruf have Turbo conversions - hell I think FVD has 490 to 640 HP kits.

That or go with the 3.8l rebuild and you'll be good to go

[89911]

Originally posted by Jeremy964
Why not just get a 964? I know these are the bastard step children of the 911 world - but I think from a value standpoint they are the next great starter platform. I had a 1990 C2 Targa - Coilover's ABS - lighten it up a little and you'll have a hell of a car. I definitely think my old 964 was faster than my 3.2 Carrera.

You can pick up a decent one for almost a direct trade (or less) for yours - and then go from there - FVD and ruf have Turbo conversions - hell I think FVD has 490 to 640 HP kits.

That or go with the 3.8l rebuild and you'll be good to go

I think this use to be a good option, but with the soft 993 market, would'nt you rather have the "gorgous wife" instead of the "bastard red-haired stepchild".

[JeremyD]

I'll give you that - and I think the 993 has the better rear link - but last time I checked - there was still $10,000 or so between the two... No?

[Mike Feinstein]

I would still argue that neither the 964 or 993 offers the connection with the road like a torsion-bar Carrera (or earlier). It's funny, even though this is the slowest of the 3 911's I've owned, it's far and away the most fun / satisfying to drive. No...at least as of now getting another car isn't in the plans.

Or to put it in 89911's terms....what good is a "gorgeous wife" if she won't come across with the goods?!?

[JeremyD]

I never felt that way in my C2 - the few 993's I drove yes - a little more distanced - quiet, assisted - refined. Maybe it was the 17" wheels - I think that's why people like the early cars with the 3.6 - raw - and connected.

I really don't notice that much difference in the C2 vs the 3.2 Carrera. The AC is very similiar. My cab doesn't have quite the power of the 3.6 - but she seems to rev a little more readily. Even without ABS I think that steering response/input brake feel etc are very similiar. I can hear the engine a little better with the cab. Weight wise they are very similiar. Maybe I am missing something...

[Mr9146]

996s are housewife cars ... 993s are jewelry ... 962s are big, heavy dogs ... real 911s have tortion bars ... real 911s have clutch cables ... real 911s don't have impact bumpers ... and real 911s have short wheelbases. Did I leave anything out?

I've driven a 69 911 with a 3.6 ... the damn thing was faster than a 3.3 turbo. It handled better, flamed the tires on the freeway in 5th, and was a flat-out rocket ship. I would rather stuff a big motor in an early car any day, but using a G50 Carrera is close second place. You get the luxuries of A/C - without cutting the body - power everything, gobs of power, and virtually maintence free use.

Swap away, my son ... swap away.