Non-Triangulated Strut Tower Brace: Use or Pitch?

[911nut]

When I acquired my '82 SC two years ago I ws given a Cambermeister strut tower brace, which I never installed.
Now, as I near completion of my suspension refresh, I'm thinking of popping it in. However, I know that there has been debates here on the board about single braces vs. triangulated braces like the one sold by Chuck at Elephant.
My question is: are there any tangible benefits to the Cambermeister or do I just chuck it into the trash?
Thanks in advance.

[91C2wrencher]

I'm no expert on this, only that I bolted a rennline (non-tri) brace in earlier this year and it made a very noticable improvement. Would the tri-brace be better? don't know. I'd say bolt it in.

[ipapilot]

Chunk it in MY trash can if you don't mind! At the very least you could install the bar and use it to gain more negative camber up front.

[Superman]

There would be a benefit from using it. If your SC is a coupe, then the chassis does not flex that much anyway. Triangulation is arguably more important for targas and cabs. The brace you have will help prevent your strut towers from leaning under cornering pressure.

[goat]

I just installed the Elephant non-triangled one last night.
I had to modify my carpet a little to wrap around the bar, so now it looks like it belongs there.
The triangled one might require cutting the carpet on the bottom part as well. I am sure alot of the folks on this forum have long since ditched the carpet, if they spend time at the track, but seeing the garage princess remark after your car I thought I'd give you a heads up.
btw very nice brace, well made. Yet to take it out on the road. Well time to fake a headache.

[techweenie]

Porsche Factory racers have non-triangulated strut braces.

You're only trying to overcome a very slight movement, after all.

I'm happy to take the cambermeister off your hands if you want to go with a triangulated brace.

[Chuck Moreland]

Non-triangulated bars are not as rigid as triangulated, but they do help some and are a good choice if maximizing trunk space is high on your criteria.

My beef with the Weltmeister is that it rigidly ties the top of the strut to the tower and brace, interfering with its required movement. They actually use that as a selling feature, but it is a bad thing.

The top of the strut has to move! That's why it's mounted in rubber. Restrict its movement with that metal plate and something has to give.

I've sold a few strut braces to guys replacing Weltmeisters - after something broke!

[Elombard]

Uh OH

Chuck you are killing me, every great deal I think I get ends up being a bad move :-)) I thought the way my Weltmeister held the strut in place was sort of a poor mans monoball set up!!!. Keeping the top of the strut from moving around in that rubber. Now I have to rethink this!!

[ipapilot]

I would have thought the same thing. Keep everything up top pretty rigid to maintain alignment geometry and allow the lower part of the suspension to move on the twisties.
Just curious, Chuck, but what part or parts were broken from using the Weltmeister?
Brian

[Chuck Moreland]

The weltmeister plate that ties everything together was reported as broken. I've heard second hand reports of strut shafts breaking but have never seen one.

[Elombard]

Still wouldnt this make the strut top similarly rigid as a Monoball?? What am I missing

My used weltmeister has a crack in the plate - definitely sees alot of force.

[MMARSH]

I'm curious, when you go to a Monoball setup, arn't you also restricting movement at the top of the strut?

I've been racing with a Weltmeister for about four years now and have suffered no problems. I will be replacing it shortly only because you can't use it with monoballs without modifing it. That being said, when I replace it, I plan to purchase the Triangulated piece from Elephant Racing.

[Chuck Moreland]

A monoball allows freedom of movement. It does not deflect, but it pivots without resistance - like a ball joint.

The weltmeister is not a proper joint at all, it's just a plate that creates a fulcrum. That strut shaft presses against that fulcrum forcing the rubber bush to compress a great deal. This creates a great deal of force on the fulcrom (weltmeister plates). And as you've observed it eventually fails.

That produt was designed without a clear understanding of how the 911 suspension works! Yet it's the most popular strut brace out.

Never underestimate the power of glossy catalogs and pretty pictures!

[Elombard]

Ohh Now I see. The monoball allows it to move where as the Weltmeister holds it at the top and the rubber at the middle (kinda). so as the strut compresses it moves out slightly at the bottom, the monoball allows the top of the strut to rotate and (so the top points in slightly), the Weltmeister has to bend before it will allow the strut top to rotate and move inward. No wonder I could have sworn the car felt "stiffer" with the bar. Now I see its not a good kinda "stiffer".

Chuck maybe you can do one of your awesome pictures, I dont think my description is worth a damn!!

[II6]

I sold my weltblabla for exactly the same reason Chuck described. It did remarkably stiffen up the front end, even on a coupe, but it was due to the shocks binding, not "chassis stiffening". I suspect the binding will increase the wear on the shock bushings too. I say ditch the bar and get the proper setup.

[MMARSH]

Sounds good to me.

If you already have a Weltmeister bar you can modify the Weltmeister bar by cutting the seam where the plate is welded to the bar. Then the bar is only attached where the factory camber plate bolts go and will still allow freedom of movement of the struts. This is the Procedure recommended by Smart Racing if you already have a Weltmeister bar and works fine.

Like I said earlier though, I still plan to ditch mine when I put on the monoballs primarily because I want the triangulation and I like the scant 3.3lbs that it weighs.

[Elombard]

MM can you post a pic, i dont want to cut too much.

[MMARSH]

I don't have a picture but this link should help you out.

http://www.smartracing.net/pdf's/Weltmeister%20Strut%20Mod.pdf

[911nut]

Wow!. Guys, thanks for all of the good information and opinions. Special thanks to Mike Marshall for the mod info.
I'll be modifying the brackets and installing the bar this week.
Thanks again.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by 911nut
Special thanks to Mike Marshall for the mod info.
I'll be modifying the brackets and installing the bar this week.
Thanks again.

ditto