Engine Drop - what did I learn

hobieboy · 10-07-2003, 06:28 AM

Like many on the board, winter is coming so its time to drop the engine & "look forward" to all the outstanding things to fix

With help from 2 other friends, it was quite an uneventful drop until after the engine is sitting on the dolly.

The designed-for-Porsche engine stand yolk doesn't fit because of the "cross pipe" that connects the exhaust headers. When I tried to disconnect the turbo from the headers last time, we ended up torching / dremeling for hours. So we ended up mounting the engine using the universal yolk, remove the headers (which takes all 10 min

) then transfer the engine to the proper yolk again.

Moral of the story - you may want to remove the headers first prior to dropping your engine.

Rot 911 · 10-07-2003, 06:36 AM

Just to add to your thread. For the Carrera's (84-89) the Bentley manual gives perfect step by step instructions, with pictures, for the engine drop. I followed the instructions and everything went just as outlined in the manual. Nothing was missed. While Wayne's 101 projects has an engine drop section, it is for the SC, and to be honest is virtually worthless for dropping the engine on the Carrera.

hobieboy · 10-07-2003, 06:39 AM

I also use Wayne's 101 project as the primary source of info, as there is no Bentley for the turbo, and modify the procedure from there.

Main difference was remove the intercooler, airfilter first from the top. And we took the tranny out then split it from the engine.

Andras · 10-07-2003, 07:37 AM

Hi Patrick and Kurt,

When one drops the engine, why does it seem that no one removes the heavy muffler prior to the drop? Both Wayne and other sources seem to deal with the muffler still attached.

Advantages to removing muffler first:
1. Less weight on the total engine when dropping.
2. Less chance of damaging the muffler.

Anything else to remove prior to the drop?

Rot 911 · 10-07-2003, 07:40 AM

I've done a drop with and without removing the muffler. To be honest the weight of the muffler is not that big of a deal and leaving it on does not upset the balance point when dropping the engine/tranny. In addition, I really don't see how you could damage the muffler by leaving it in place. I also find it a useful handhold when manuvering the engine during dropping and lifting.

APKhaos · 10-07-2003, 07:49 AM

Lost count of engine drops the NOVA group has done on everything from 60s to late models. We never remove the muffler pre-drop, and I can't see any value in doing it.

hobieboy · 10-07-2003, 07:58 AM

On a turbo, its also even more awkard to try to detach the turbo from the muffler / header while its in the car. For the weight-savings, I'd wait till its out of the car.

Ron Broman · Ron Broman's Garage

I have a 70T. My experience was also based on Waynes SC guide. Which if my memory serves me correctly - leaves the transmission in place on the car. I don't know how anyone can get that TO bearing to let go while in the car but I really doubt it could be re-installed after the motor was put back in. My $.02 worth on lessons learned. No, I never considered NOT taking the engine out without the transmission, but I know really well, I never Will.

hobieboy · 10-07-2003, 09:04 AM

Ron, I'm with you...
Sounds like its more a question for Wayne - Why does 101 Project suggest to take the engine out with the tranny still in the car?

Seems that most take the tranny out with the engine and it certainly seems a lot easier to me doing it this way than trying to separate the tranny from the engine while its in the car.

Andras · 10-07-2003, 09:50 AM

Ron and Patrick,

Sorry to rain on your thread, but the question I asked was not the transmission, but the muffler. Everyone knows that you should remove the transmission along with the engine or vice versa, but the muffler sits out there, waiting to be dinged. It is so easy to take it off, as anyone who does Driver's Ed and drives to the tack knows.

Also, if you remove the muffler frist, the engine will clear the rear valence more easily, etc.

Sorry for the confusing question.

Rot 911 · 10-07-2003, 09:57 AM

Andras what you say about taking the muffler off first making it easier to clear the rear valance makes absolutely no sense. The muffler sits below the engine tray and doesn't get in the way of anything during an engine drop. As for weight, what you are talking about at most is 30lbs, so it really makes no difference. Now if you like taking the muffler off first, have at it. Really nothing to get stirred up about. Now some people do drop and engine minus the tranny. I suppose if you have a lift and a jack the will extend up to the engine it is not that big of a deal. But when you are using floor jacks dropping the engine and tranny as a combo is just much easier to do. Especially when it comes time to reinstall things.

hobieboy · 10-07-2003, 12:09 PM

As Kurt said, I didn't see much benefit either other than some small weight savings (ok with the turbo maybe 50lbs?).

But its a PITA to take it off while it is in the car, particularly with the turbo. So, I'd rather wait till engine's out then remove it.

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by PatrickT
The designed-for-Porsche engine stand yolk doesn't fit because of the "cross pipe" that connects the exhaust headers. When I tried to disconnect the turbo from the headers last time, we ended up torching / dremeling for hours. So we ended up mounting the engine using the universal yolk, remove the headers (which takes all 10 min ) then transfer the engine to the proper yolk again.

I use my air grinder to grind some yoke metal away and then spray it with some grey paint. Clears the exhaust fine now and you'd never know it was modified.
-Chris

UTKarmann_Ghia · 10-07-2003, 02:18 PM

I've installed/removed probably 50 VW engines and never had to pull the tranny. You're just asking for trouble with the CV joint bolts (cross-threading and what not) by removing it all. I dropped my engine last month (first time for a 911) with the tranny left as is and it was truely a piece of cake. So, I definitely do not agree with the comment:

"Everyone knows that you should remove the transmission along with the engine"

My .02 worth...

Randy Webb · 10-07-2003, 02:34 PM

That is a LOT better than learning -- too late -- that you are not able to bench press 450 lbs.....

Ron Broman · Ron Broman's Garage

UTKarmann_Ghia, Have you ever pulled a 2.2 from a '70 911T and left the transmission in place? If so, I need to talk with you. And Andras didn't mean to break into your post, I started reading at the top and noticed the original question;" Engine drop - What did I learn". This was why I added my comment. I didn't remove my muffler either.

rbroman@cox.net

Superman · 10-07-2003, 04:25 PM

You're all correct, including Andras. As he said, if you lower an SC engine, straight down, with the muffler attached, the muffler will scrape the rear valence. Usually this is avoided because the tranny-end is removed last, after tilting the engine down.

Todd Simpson · 10-07-2003, 05:01 PM

Quote:

I've installed/removed probably 50 VW engines and never had to pull the tranny.

The 2.2's are a different beast. The motor and trans can only be seperated after rotating the throwout bearing off the fork. That requires you to look with a flashlight into the teeny window on the front of the bellhousing, then reach in there with a screwdriver.

Rot 911 · 10-07-2003, 05:48 PM

Well in less time than it took to discuss the best way to drop the engine I removed the valance and bumper and rolled the engine and tranny out from the car.

john walker's workshop · 10-07-2003, 06:31 PM

kurt, get some proper lighting in there or you'll get eyestrain.