Safety concerns for early 911

[uncwSoccer]

I'm looking at a 72 911 E relatively close that's in less than optimal shape but fairly rust free which is my primary concern so I'm satisfied. The E engine would be really great after a rebuild, and I love that early sound.

I'd like an SC for the engine and transmission , but that can be lived without. (editing error sorry)

My primary concern is rust on the pregalvanized car and safety concerns. Are there rust issues that can't be repaired on these cars, if something comes up?

Would an SC or impact bumper car really offer considerable or proven advantages in a significant accident over earlier long hood cars?

I'm undecided on whether I would add a rollcage, although harnesses and a rollbar are in order. The car would be for daily street use, and DE events.

I searched the BBS, if there's a previous post just point me in the right direction.

[B D]

This may help:

Reasons a Porsche is safe:
1. They are loud
2. Everyone around you is admiring your car
3. The handaling capabilities in these cars is so good it has saved me from several accidents.

[cegerer]

As I recall, the original impact bumpers were designed to withstand 5MPH crashes. In other words, little parking lot fender benders that cost the insurance companies lots of money.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by cegerer
As I recall, the original impact bumpers were designed to withstand 5MPH crashes. In other words, little parking lot fender benders that cost the insurance companies lots of money.

Absolutely correct, AFIK. So, when you hit big, the bumper don't do stink. On the other hand, in it's time, the Porsche monocoque was considered very safe and the design absorbed a lot of energy. I'm parting a '71 Targa that was hit and repaired poorly. I have found crumpling all the way in to the smuggler's box. A passenger or something hit the dash and bowed it in toward the windshield about an inch. There are cutouts that served as an early version of crumple zones.

I'll bet it still hurt.

[Jack Olsen]

The irony of safety bumpers is that as soon as the federal government got involved, the project for auto makers became how to put something in place that would protect the body in 2.5-mph or 5-mph impacts. Bumpers are part of a car's overall crumple package, but they're just a small part of it.

With a Porsche, the unibody design has a lot more to do with keeping you safe. And early cars can sustain a lot of impact:



More meaningful, probably, were the 73-and-later reinforcements in the doors.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Spoken by somebody that knows.

[john70t]

BlackBeautyII with attest to the fact they can be rebuilt better,stronger, faster after signifigant angled impact.
The former owner of mine used to bumper-park the car and although one rear bumperette had been crunched and badly welded back into shape the frame shows no damage.
Also while POR15ing the entire underside, I found there was many areas that the factory undercoater had missed altogether and still only had light surface rust after 33 years (it was garaged in cali though).

[uncwSoccer]

Jack, I've seen your video several times, you were running a full cage with side supports weren't you? Are the door reinforcements something than can be retrofitted on earlier cars without swapping doors?

I wasn't trying to imply above that the impact bumpers were what I was concerned over, the ones on my 944 are little more than tiny shocks, I was just referring to the short hood cars vs impact bumper cars, 73+. Were there any running changes made to the frame or body of the car, aside from the above mentioned door supports that I'd be missing out on? Thanks for all the imput.

[pwd72s]

Dan, both the '72E and the 911SC came with a type 915 transmission...the E should have a 7:31 ring & pinion, and if I'm not mistaken a "taller" 8:31 for the SC....

[techweenie]

One overlooked point in the initial post:

If you are building a car for street use, NEVER put a cage in it unless you drive with a helmet on and/or at least drive in 5-point belts. Those bars will kill you quicker than any other component on the inside of your car.

911s are safe primarily because they can avoid accidents, a well kept-up 911 is #1. #2 is you. Get some training in high speed driving.

There is an offset steering linkage in the 911 that is safer than other period cars in a frontal collision.

As for the side impact, if that's really a concern of yours, swap for later doors and pray that you never get T-boned.

[nostatic]

what techweenie said. I've got #1 covered, and am working on #2. The biggest worry for me on the street are the bumpers of SUVs...they're right about head height.

Beyond that, these cars are damn tough. And they can be rebuilt...quickly if you are lucky and know they right guys.

[Jack Olsen]

Originally posted by uncwSoccer
Jack, I've seen your video several times, you were running a full cage with side supports weren't you? Are the door reinforcements something than can be retrofitted on earlier cars without swapping doors?

No. The car I crashed had a rollbar and a race seat. When I rebuilt (on a new tub), I added the cage.

And the side sections of my cage didn't require different doors. They're not Nascar-style.

A cage for street use can be made significantly safer with SFI padding on the exposed parts of the cage. I'm not saying it's an easy decision, for a street car -- but the good SFI stuff is comparable to what's inside a helmet. Remember that the steel edge of your roof is a nasty thing to hit your head on, too.

A 5-point belt isn't going to keep your head from wagging all over the place, though.

[stealthn]

This one hit a horse...yes they are tough (albeit this is not a 70's)

[Wayne 962]

As with any car, severe rust can be a dangerous disease. Almost all rust spots can be repaired from donor cars, but only by a professional who has done this before. Check the car out carefully before you take it for a wild ride...

-Wayne

[Jack Olsen]

As a side note about safety and my date with the concrete wall, I was completely unharmed in the course of the crash. I wasn't even sore, afterwards.

The car took all the force from the impact.

[uncwSoccer]

What kind of harness setup were you using? Was it integrated w/the rollbar?


Are these racing-cell gas tanks worth anything in safety measures for street use. I assume most injuries in an accident come from impact, but I'm not familiar with incidents of the 911 tank rupturing and causing injuries in a crash, other than starting a slow fire and costing the car.

[nostatic]

my car hit a big chunk of concrete at 65mpg...straight-on shot to the bottom of the tub/tank. Dented but didn't rupture the gas tank. I got lucky I suppose, but that seems pretty tough.

[Jack Olsen]

I hit a wall, and did no damage to the tank. I'm pretty sure we were able to re-use it on the new version of the car, in fact.

I had a 5-point harness that rolled over a part of the roll bar assembly. No bruising around the belts -- but they're wider than stock belts.

The danger was too my neck, which could have snapped, Earnhardt-style. I was able to hold myself in place (with the help of the belts) enough so that I broke the steering wheel in my hands. But if you watch the video, my head flops forward to full extension, and then snaps back. No way to hold it in place.

And on the topic, have a body shop go over the car for rust before you agree to buy it. Rust makes a good portion of the early cars not economically feasible to own or restore.

[ubiquity0]

Originally posted by nostatic
my car hit a big chunk of concrete at 65mpg...

Thats a big improvement over the 13mpg you used to get. Whats your secret?

[nostatic]

Originally posted by ubiquity0
Thats a big improvement over the 13mpg you used to get. Whats your secret?

I only drive downhill. Luckily I live in the Escher section of Los Angeles...