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onewhippedpuppy's Avatar
 
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Now it's trying to steer itself!

Ok, my problem/ quirk of the week is this, at low speeds, turning tight to the right or left, my steering wheel "kicks" back at me, and the car kind of jerks. The closest thing I can compare it to is driving a 4wd on dry pavement with the hubs locked, probably not a good comparison on a Porsche board. It feels like something is binding, but what? Car is a 70 T, stock appearing ride height, 205/ 60x 15s, 15x6 Fuchs, but no signs of clearance problems. I can turn the wheels to full lock both ways with plenty of room to spare, no signs of rubbing. Wheels are properly torqued down, and everything appears to be ok as far as tie rods, ball joints, etc, the steering is tight with no free play. So, any ideas?

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Matt J.
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Old 01-03-2004, 05:04 PM
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my 924 did exactly the same thing , tightened the wheel bearings and it was gone...

you can easely check this if you jack the front up, and try to wiggle the wheels with the steering lock on
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Stijn Vandamme
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Old 01-03-2004, 05:11 PM
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Yep, sounds like wheel bearings.
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Old 01-03-2004, 06:07 PM
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Have your wheels been aligned professionally? It sounds to me like you are operating with front "toe out" .Does it wander off a straight line very easily as well ?
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Old 01-03-2004, 06:14 PM
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Front wheel bearings are a likely culprit, the PO serviced them recently, maybe he didn't torque everything down correctly? The car does have a slight pull left, but really it has decent straight line stability, except when it's windy. Should I jack it up, turn the steering wheel to lock, and then see if I can move the wheel further? I thought the PO knew his stuff, he sold this car because he was almost done with a 3.2 SC he was totally re-doing, but I already ruined my chrome rear window trim because I removed the rear window as per his instructions (wrong) to replace the rear window seal ("it's real easy"), and now this. I guess I have tomorrows project. Thanks guys.
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Matt J.
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Old 01-03-2004, 06:27 PM
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Wheel bearings are checked by jacking up and shaking the wheel side to side and top and bottom .Any looseness top to bottom can be bearings or ball joints any side to side can be steering linkage or wheel bearings.If you have loose in both planes you probably need to try adjusting the brgs. Adjust the nut on the spindle to achieve zero endplay but no preload. The manual probably specifies a torque spec of a couple of pounds followed by loosening a few degrees but I haven,t a manual nearby to see .I usually do it by feel .Be careful not to tighten too much just enough to eliminate any wobble.Check your toe in with a tape measure while you are there anyway .Measure across to the same tire groove front and back of the tire and verify toe in ie front of tire distance across should be about 1/16 to 1/8 less than across rear of front tires
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Old 01-03-2004, 06:51 PM
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Thanks johns, I'll give that a shot tomorrow. I'm sure an alignment couldn't hurt, I'm waiting on new tires to really evaluate what I need to do suspension wise. I'm sure it will turn into what don't I need to do.
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Matt J.
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Old 01-03-2004, 08:36 PM
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I did this a couple of weeks ago according to the Bentley manual. It said to tighten the nut to where you could just move the washer under the nut with a screwdriver by applying direct pressure. Not any kindof prying or anything. I checked mine twice to be sure I did it right. Good luck!
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Old 01-03-2004, 08:39 PM
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matt

mine did that from when i bought it. it also wore out the insides of the front tyres. are yours worn on the inside? i think it will get worse with wear. i put it down to alignment, but my tyre shop tells me that 911's do this to tyres.

i checked toe recently and i had wat too much toe in.
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Old 01-03-2004, 11:23 PM
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Really Rich, the tires are worn fairly evenly, I'm thinking bearings. I'll let you guys know what it was when I get it taken care of.
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Matt J.
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Old 01-04-2004, 06:30 AM
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Ok, problem not solved, both bearings seemed too tight, so I re-adjusted them, but the problem remains. Alignment? That's my best guess, as the car pulls to the left already. Any ideas?
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Matt J.
10 E63 AMG, 09 SL63 AMG
Past: 911T, 911SC, Carrera, 951s, 955, 996s, 987s, 986s, 997s, BMW 5x, C36, C63, XJR, S8, Maserati Coupe, GT500, etc
Old 01-05-2004, 01:51 PM
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Could be a bump steer issue....is the front end real low?
Old 01-05-2004, 01:53 PM
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Matt, center the wheel and look at your tires, are they pointing in, out? One pointing further in one direction than the other?
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Old 01-05-2004, 01:54 PM
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Just eyeballing it Kurt, it looks like toe out, they both are pointing slightly outward. Ride height appears fairly normal.

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Matt J.
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:21 PM
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Excessive toe-out will do that.
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:35 PM
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Since it's too late for me to call anyone tonight, what does an alignment usually run?
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Matt J.
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:37 PM
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sweet looking car Matt. Welcome to the club I love that color. It just needs a duck tail
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:38 PM
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As I said earlier Toe Out will cause the issue you described .A normal garage /tire shop alignment will check the camber,caster and toe settings as well as the rear settings. The 911 is particularily sensative to ride height affecting alignment .Do a search about checking ride height or see 101 projects book about lowering if you have it. You can check corner heights with a tape measure and adjust the front end height easily before alignment. Then when you get an alignment if only toe needs correcting it can cost as little as$30 if all 3 angles up front as well as rear needs adjusting you probably can spend a bit over $100
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Old 01-05-2004, 05:10 PM
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I was quoted $150 by supposedly a very good Porsche alignment shop. The guy told me that it takes him half a day to do it right. Funny thing is that one of my front tires is wearing more on the inside of the tire. And my car seems to track quite a bit on roads which have some grooves worn into them.
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Old 01-05-2004, 05:21 PM
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One more alignment thought. Getting it right requires height checking and correction before setting wheel angles. Ask for a print out of the wheel angles before and after adjustment. You can ask most techs for an explanation of what the angles meant as far as road behavior or tire wear issues.Porsche specs call for close to zero camber (or a hint positive for good straight tracking)about 6 1/2 deg caster and 1/16 toe in. This is from memory only. I usually aim for about 1/2 to 1 deg neg camber for a little better cornering vs straight tracking. Try to get caster and camber close to the same side to side.Many shops will set caster slightly more on pass side to compensate for crowned roads.I don't, I aim for as close to equal side to side instead of just reaching one end or the other of the allowed ranges.To get really nice results you can corner balance the spring pressures first instead of just checking heights but this is alot more time consuming.The reason the 911 is so nice when set up right is also why it can be such a pain when it's not. Most cars don't have nearly as many possible adjustments and as such can't be tuned as well ,or that far out of tune either.

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Last edited by johnsjmc; 01-05-2004 at 06:02 PM..
Old 01-05-2004, 05:51 PM
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