Carrera 3.2 Performance mystery and Chips (long)

[Wil Ferch]

OK Loren, here goes.

There is no denying that altered fuel delivery and ignition advance timing can produce more hp. This has been done for a hundred years via hot rodders and carbs. There is also no denying that using a dyno to optimize the match of these altered points to *your* car is an advantage that helps get the absolute most out of your engine.

Unfortunately, targeting the "most" is also driving you toward a point of destruction. Much like running a centrifugal compressor close to it's surge line..this is an area of greatest efficiency just a hair's breadth away from self-destruction. Now, if we include OTHER empirical data ( like decoding the Weltmeister and Autothority chips..as well as the range of Porsche's mild-to-aggressive chips)....and apply a statistically relevent safety margin...you can get "close" to the optimized operating point without getting as close as can be achieved with a dyno. A side benefit is that there is automatically more margin to the point of destruction. An approach like this ( using historical / empirical data that Steve uses...which you conveniently ignore)...gets you more than stock yet not-as-optimized as using a dyno....plus...a degree of safety. Consider this a 1st-order optimization vs a second or third order optimization.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an approach as I've outlined...although it may not be the approach YOU would use.

---Wil Ferch

[smoak]

You know I thought Loren was over the top in his previous "submissions" to this community and I felt compelled to exchange some dialogue with him without having all of the technical backup to support my position. Loren counters with you have no data, you are misguided etc etc etc. Then finally Steve is compelled to respond to the "Carrot Top" of this community with empircal data, explantions, heck even agreeing with Loren on some points. Then in "Loren's thread," as he likes to characterize them, he waxes and wanes his testiment on chips suck and do nothing but hurt your car. To which, Wayne Dempsey, replies that while Loren might be right on some of the points about potential detonation damage with too agressive of a fuel map, he essentially says THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING (which is why he sells them!). So, I am convinced Loren you win, you are right, I agree with you Mr. McCarthy, there really are black helicopters buzzing about , United Nations invasion forces in our backyard and government backed UFO coverups!

[targa911man]

All this chip talk has made my 911 jones unbearable. Roads here have been mostly sheets of ice all week, but the sun's out today and the roads are 911-navigable. I'm going to park the jeep and get my Wonged Carrera out. Then I'm going to drive around imagining that I'm getting great torque and acceleration, hallucinating that I'm totally enjoying the driving experience, and deluding myself that the destruction of my engine isn't imminent.

[Lorenfb]

Sounds like Wil helped write the marketing hype. Please get real!
Where have you been for the last 15 years? If you were to quote
Dinan (Weltmeister Chip & BMW), Autothority, or Hypertech,
then maybe some truth there. This other stuff is ?????

For more info on this topic, you can go to my web site,
(www.systemsc.com), on the Technical, Graphs, & Problems pages.

[Wavey]

Originally posted by targa911man
I'm going to get my Wonged Carrera out. Then I'm going to drive around imagining that I'm getting great torque and acceleration, hallucinating that I'm totally enjoying the driving experience, and deluding myself that the destruction of my engine isn't imminent.

DAN! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP! HAVEN'T YOU HEARD A WORD LOREN SAID?

[JeremyD]

why bother?

[jester911]

This topic seems to be like politics or religion. There are those that believe a certain way but can at least debate with those that have opposing beliefs and accept some of the things discussed.

There is another group that may be sitting on the fence but can look at info and come to a logical conclusion.

Then there is that small percentage that no matter what info, facts logic, etc. they feel there stance is the only right one.

When anyone closes their mind to this degree, no amount of debating will change anything.

It is the american way to believe as you want. The only problem I have is when someone tries to imply everyone else is an idiot if they do not agree with them.

In other words if you don't agree with what is being said, fine.
Make your point and move on. Even if you are right, attitude and arrogance isn't going help your cause.
okay, I am off the soap box.

[alf]

I did not buy my 911 because it has the most HP or best dyno reads. I think the kid with the tricked out Civic has more HP.

I bought my 911 because i like how it feels. I like the Wong chip because it makes my 911 feel better than with the stock or the Europroduct chip.

But do not listen to me because i am a satisfied Wong customer. I might also be naive, unintelligent, illogical, not have 15 years of experience and have uncontrollable urges to herd.

I have to run, there is another herd of naive 911 idiots that i have to consume some BS with on another tread.

alf

[krichard]

weird how this thread went down the toilet all the sudden. One rotten apple spoiled the thread. All that apple had to do was state its position and back it up with data but it is impossible for the arrogant ******* apple to do such a thing. That's one proud apple that stinks like my exit hole.

[Steve W]

No marketing hype here, just to set the facts straight. No one helped me to write anything, as that is just another uninformed assumption. I provided this information to clear up a lot of the nonsense drivel that has been posted lately. As for the claims of marketing, I honestly do not car if another chip is sold or not from here on out. Those that know me know that I make 50 times more in my real businesses than what I've made with chips, and the time I have put into this has certainly detraced from my time I would have been better invested elsewhere.

I think herein is the flaw. There are those that read, and quote others to give themselves credibility without any practical experience. Then perhaps there are the naive like us that ignore what others tell us can't be done, and actually do it. What strikes me odd is how someone can make such a assumption on something that he has never seen. If the world were stuck with the limitations that others assume, then what kind of progress would there be?

[cowtown]

(nevermind - I'm really trying not to say any more about this guy. Not easy.)

[BGCarrera32]

Nothing to add, just thought I'd let ya all know I'm going for a soda now.

[Wavey]

Hey, grab me some Twinkies, would ya?

[Wil Ferch]

Yeah..and while you're at it...have someone grab *my* twinkies, too...K?
---Wil Ferch

( bite tongue....bite tongue.....bite tongue...)

[Wil Ferch]

Loren:
Just for giggles....from one engineer to another....
please tell me ...specifically... where there is junk science or "marketing" in the last post I issued...just medically curious how your mind works, don'tcha know?

Have LOTSA fun!
--Wil Ferch

[Otto]

How about some intelligent reponses & comments?

[BGCarrera32]

Originally posted by Otto
How about some intelligent reponses & comments?

We're all burned out on the intelligent ones at this point, now we're just havin' fun...

[toolman]

It is just like dealing with a kid. If you ignore him, he will go away. Don't respond to the wild rantings of a kid, or you just give him more fuel to run on. Just ignore the post like it doesn't exist.

[anh911]

ok, we're all grabbing everyone else's twinkies... NOT.

The best possible adjustment of the air-fuel ratio to every operating condition is achieved with a Lambda characteristic map in the control unit.

Such a map is first determined by engine-dynamometer tests, then optimized for fuel economy, exhaust emissions and driveability in the vehicle itself.

With a Lambda map it is possible to adjust the air-fuel ratio according to the following demands for every operating condition:

• minimum fuel consumption
• good driveability
• low exhaust emissions
• power

At wide-open throttle Motronic controls the air-fuel ratio...

At part load, Motronic adjusts the air-fuel ratio (and ignition timing) to provide low fuel consumption and exhaust emissions .

Quoted from:
Robert Bosch GmbH
Automotive Equipment Division
Technical Publications Department

[MIK911]

Thanks for the info Steve. I'm loving my new modified 2nd generation chip for my '86.

You have PM

Thanks
Mike