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I will see what I can find out. When I was there Saturday, they said that they put one in for me to grab codes and what not.
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Rob Fusi
77 911S | 3.6 Varioram | Triad Muffler | B&B 9400 Cooler |WEVO everything | Big Reds | 23/33 | 22/22 sways | Polybronze | RSR shocks/struts | FM10s |
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Old 02-10-2004, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MuffinMan
I don't know if my setup will be better than OBDI, but it will certainly be a bit different. What sort of details are you looking for?
Rob,

Without a diagnostic port you have to manually test components through the harness with the DME disconnected when you suspect something is wrong. It is a pain and impossible to do running diagnostic tests. In my opinion it is one of the things that really stinks about doing this conversion. I have a modern powerplant without the modern diagnostic capabilities, seems quite stupid to me now.


You on the other hand will NOT have that issue, I am envious!


Keep posting the progress.

Todd
Old 02-10-2004, 05:15 PM
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I have very few details now, as they haven't actually hooked anything up, yet. We are waiting for a couple of little parts to arrive on Friday, then the 3.6 will actually be installed in the car. All that is left at that point are a few oil lines, heat routing, and the usual connections. Finally, they will work with the diagnostic port, and I'll get the details if/when they get it working. I'm guessing the car will actually be running by the end of next week. I'll keep you apprised!
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77 911S | 3.6 Varioram | Triad Muffler | B&B 9400 Cooler |WEVO everything | Big Reds | 23/33 | 22/22 sways | Polybronze | RSR shocks/struts | FM10s |
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:37 AM
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hallo
The Drive block has nothing to do with the alarm system , it is only the immobilizer . The Dme requires a code from the Drive block Computer
to start and run . It will block the Starter , the Fuelpump and the Ignition .This is a German Insurance requirement ,they refused to insure any Car without a Driveblock . Some OBD 1 Computers have that
too and you need a Chip to overcome this feature .
the Diagnosis Port on both systems will give you information about the
Time of Injektion ,the Advance of Ignition at Certain RPm ,etc .
This is also on both systems the same . The big cifference is that you need the PST 2 Tester from Porsche to read the OBD 1 Ports ,while on the OBD 2 you can read SOME information with Aftermarket devices .
AND with a lot of Aftermarket Chips you can NOT read out the Motronic .
As with almost all Cars , sometimes the simple Things are better ,
If i have have the choice i go with the OBD 1 , the variety of Chips is much wider , you have only 1 Lambdasensor ,no Airpump etc.
harald
Old 02-11-2004, 01:22 PM
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Bill,

there shouldn't be any secrets to it. Take a look at the wiring diagrams. All you need is the special round Porsche connector. three wires from the connector under the drivers seat to the diag connector, power, and ground. From what I understand it's essentially an RS232-type serial port plus a separate diagnostics line that indicates when knocking occurs.

I don't quite see the benefits for the diagnostics port though since you can read out the fault codes easily with the check engine light. Worked for me every time.

If you want to write comands to the DME to for example trigger an injector or a coil this is another story. Sure a nice function to troubleshoot very involved issues. But you also need those hard to come by Bosch Hammer devices or the even more expensive newer Bosch engine testers. For that money you'd rather by another engine IMHO.

Ingo

Ingo
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I repair/rebuild Bosch CDI Boxes and Porsche Motronic DMEs
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How about a NoBadDays DualChip for 964 or '95 993
Old 02-11-2004, 01:52 PM
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Ingo, I've looked till my head spins, part of the problem is that paper is much easier to trace things out on and I haven't printed the whole thing outyet.

Here's the OBD1 55 pin connector.

I see that pin 13 and 55 are dignosis wire and pin 21is for check engine on US cars, I assume that ROW don't use this for anything?

But where on the harness was it tied in?

If a salvage yard connector and associted wire was purchased where is it tied in? Then the next issue is what software is needed to interpret the signal?
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:15 PM
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Bill,

As you may recall I have messed with this repeatedly. The only way to properly do it is to buy another harness with the data port attached. You cannot easily tap into the harness, things are tight, the wires are very small and you can easily break a wire inside that "stretchy/plasticky" insualtion and end up with an intermittent NIGHTMARE (ask me how I know this).
However a harness with a port will not work with the cyntex chip.

I did figure out how to install a CEL on the 993 OBDI, it was easy and works great, (but once again, not with a cyntex chip).

You will notice an empty socket 21 on your DME connector, that is the "flash ground" for the CEL. Crimp one of the special terminals (I believe I have a spare should you need one) to a wire and run this to the location of your choosing. Then install a small LED that has a fused hot to it all of the time the ignition is on. The DME will flash out the ground to complete the circuit.
Old 02-11-2004, 02:41 PM
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Todd, have you got a picture of the connector?

The Cyntex and aftermarket chips just don't enable this function?
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Then the next issue is what software is needed to interpret the signal?
Forgot to mention in my previous post that even if you have a port and a compatible chip you have to have a hammer. Porsche 's OBDI was basically proprietary and a normal OBDI scanner even with the correct wires hooked up would not initialize or read out. Loren at Systems Consulting educated me on this.


I am perplexed at how Moses's mechanic configured his data port.
Old 02-11-2004, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Todd, have you got a picture of the connector?
Which connector, the data port connector? As far as the chips go, not all aftermarket chips are the same as the cyntex.... You will need a custom chip for your setup.

Last edited by Embs; 02-11-2004 at 03:05 PM..
Old 02-11-2004, 02:53 PM
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Bill,

have you looked at the actual wiring diagram that shows the diagnostics port? I should become clear from there.

The check engine light function is there regardless of U.S. or Euro. Early U.S. and Euro had no bulb in the cluster and maybe no wire running to the cluster. Early 964 DME's with a 911 part number did not have the code for the check engine light.

The diag port connector is a round style 19Pin thing.

The software is Porsche/Bosch propriatary. It's most likely an RS232 protocal based comunication. You can transfer comands and data in either direction. The DME is nothing else than a computer. It has a firmware running that is stored on the EPROM. The EPROM also contains the lookup tables for ignition and timing. Some chip tuners simply disabled the code section that drives the check engine light because they did not know how to deal with fault code 151: Change DME. This code gets produced when the self diagnosis fails. A modified chip with non-corrected checksum is one reason that diagnosis fails. As a result the light comes on and you wont pass smog because of the light on.

Ingo
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'74 Targa 3.6 (not stock ) - '01 C4 (almost stock) - '00 ML430 (stock)

I repair/rebuild Bosch CDI Boxes and Porsche Motronic DMEs
Porsche "Hammer" or Porsche PST2 - I can help!!
How about a NoBadDays DualChip for 964 or '95 993
Old 02-11-2004, 03:21 PM
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Here is part of the 964 wiring diagram. T16 is on the main DME harness running from the DME to the engine compartment. Most of the wires come from there. You also need 12V, GND, and ignition switched 12 V. Once you find the physical round connector its pretty straight forward.

Ingo
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'74 Targa 3.6 (not stock ) - '01 C4 (almost stock) - '00 ML430 (stock)

I repair/rebuild Bosch CDI Boxes and Porsche Motronic DMEs
Porsche "Hammer" or Porsche PST2 - I can help!!
How about a NoBadDays DualChip for 964 or '95 993
Old 02-11-2004, 03:32 PM
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Ok got it, now to go see what it looks like in the car.

The 993 wiring is very similar, maybe the same, have to look at it carefully.
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Old 02-11-2004, 04:29 PM
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We were held up by a few parts, but the engine is in the car. The heat still needs to be connected along with some little things, like oil lines & what not. It should be running tomorrow.

Here are some pictures of it installed, along with the Triad muffler. I'm told the tip locations aren't 100% perfect for the stock valence, but we'll see where they end up.







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77 911S | 3.6 Varioram | Triad Muffler | B&B 9400 Cooler |WEVO everything | Big Reds | 23/33 | 22/22 sways | Polybronze | RSR shocks/struts | FM10s |
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Old 02-19-2004, 09:50 AM
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Looks great Rob. I am anxious to hear your thoughts on the Triad. Compared to everything else I have heard I don't think anything comes close but I may be a tad biased....


Congrats on the install!!
Old 02-19-2004, 10:03 AM
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holy *****! that is awesome!
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Old 02-19-2004, 10:30 AM
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I can't wait to drive this thing, it should be an entirely different beast, especially since my 2.7 dyno'd at only 115rwhp.

The diagnostic port is hooked up electrically, but they have not scanned through it yet. I'm sure they'll do that tomorrow once the car is running. When I get the car back, I'll make a nice high quality video so you can hear the exhaust and share in the exhileration of the project completion.

I'm told there is not much room with the Triad exhaust for heat, but they are working on it right now and I'll be certain to take pictures of the installation once it is completed.
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77 911S | 3.6 Varioram | Triad Muffler | B&B 9400 Cooler |WEVO everything | Big Reds | 23/33 | 22/22 sways | Polybronze | RSR shocks/struts | FM10s |
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Old 02-19-2004, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MuffinMan
I can't wait to drive this thing, it should be an entirely different beast, especially since my 2.7 dyno'd at only 115rwhp.
Wow, you have more than doubled your HP!!!
Yes your in for a little shock, the whole time your in first gear will feel like it has been reduced to milliseconds!!
Old 02-19-2004, 11:33 AM
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Rob you have a PM
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1972 911 Coupe project
1972 911 Coupe 3.2 TwinPlug MFI 'Tangerina-Jolie'
1990 964 RSR project 'Norbert'
1957 356A Emory speedster build in progress
Old 02-19-2004, 11:55 AM
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Rob,

can you confirm that the TRIAD muffler cleared the stock 993 heater pipe on your setup??? I am anxious to decide on my muffler,
Cheers,
Ingo
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'74 Targa 3.6 (not stock ) - '01 C4 (almost stock) - '00 ML430 (stock)

I repair/rebuild Bosch CDI Boxes and Porsche Motronic DMEs
Porsche "Hammer" or Porsche PST2 - I can help!!
How about a NoBadDays DualChip for 964 or '95 993
Old 02-19-2004, 01:48 PM
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