1972T Questions...

[eddiec]

I have a chance to buy a 1972 911T and wanted to get some of you guys to comment on the car if you will. It is basically a one owner with some rust damage. I'm not sure how much rust there is, but I don't think it is very bad. Other than that, the car looks good. I have more concerns over things that I have read about this year model and the general suggestion that I should just look elsewhere. I know a good number of you guys own the older 911's and love them, but the warnings about this model are pretty specific and cause some concern.

Anything you care to share will be appreciated.

[vol96]

My .02

Rust is the first concern. Rust may work from the outside in and from the inside out. Cost? Only time will tell.

MFI - Pumps wear out and need rebuilding. If running correctly MFI is great IMHO. MFI carrs usually run rich when worn. Rebuild ~$1000+

Hydraulic tensioners - Most guys here will tell you to install the oil fed tensioners. Cost ~$600

Targa Top - A new set of seals (front, back and both sides) will cost $500-600. The tops wear out. Rebuilds are $500+

And thats my .02

[Randy Webb]

I am worried about the rust. There is almost always more than you can find -- and it is often structural. You need sombody to really tear the car apapart -- somebody that knows wher ethe rust usually lurks.

That said, I don't understand you r concerns the '72 in general. The '72 is the best year ever for the 911. I "only" have a '73. The '72 has the best balance and that is the most important thing. Since it's a T, you need not feel guilty about modifying it to get 275 hp. Be sure you replace all rubber brake hoses and suspension pieces on any older car. And change all fluids of course.

[Jay Auskin]

Once you get into the rust repair, you'll have the entire car stripped. I recently bought a 72 911T. The body was perfect, but the engine was shot (valve overheated, broke off, and ruined a piston). Since it was sitting for 6 years, I decided to replace everything mechanical that could fail along with the engine rebuild. I'm into it maybe $6500. I bought the car for $5500.

I'm not sure what you head in terms of "concerns" on a '72??

[Jack Olsen]

If ever there were a year without significant reservations, I think it would be the 72 or 73 models. Along the lines of what Randy said, I've modified my 72T to 275 hp.

Rust, however, is a big deal with early cars. You're talking about a lot of non-galvanized steel that's been sitting in the open air for 32 years. Get it checked out by a professional very thoroughly.

[Jim Sims]

[i]

I'm not sure what you head in terms of "concerns" on a '72?? [/B]

Have you purchased new engine to oil tank and back oil lines? Can you even get them?

Jim

[eddiec]

Jack - I did not remember your car being a 911T. If this is the same one I read about in Excellence, tell me what issue the article I read was in. I would like to read again and see what you did to your car to increase the performance.

Jay - I have been reading about mainshaft seals and the problems they cause on this model when they leak. I guess a lot of the guys that own one of these cars may have modified this problem away. Or, it may not be as serious as I assume by reading the ariticle I am reading. But to answer you, this is a concern.

Thanks for all the good advice! I will have a better inspection of the rusted area for sure. The car is a targa. White with black interior. If I get it I will be back in touch.

You all make being part of this board a pleasure.

[Jack Olsen]

If you click on the "Press" link in my signature, you can read the Excellence article. In fairness to the phrase "building up," I swapped a larger motor into my car.

[vol96]

Mainshaft seal cannot be replaced w/o opening the trans, if I remember correctly. Not the case with 73 and later......I hope.

[RSBob]

One thing to remember, visible rust is like seeing the tip of the iceberg. There's far more below, so do what the guys suggest and get it thoroughly evaluated - not only mechanically but probably by a good restoration shope specializing in P-cars. They know exactly where to look.

My favorite of the 'later' early cars is the 72.

Good luck.

[zotman72]

Well I am into my eleventh year with my '72 and sure I have thrown a lot of money at it. It is a wonderful car, fun, noisy and fast as a scalded cat. When I wanted more power, I went with with my base material a T motor and upgraded it to a true S motor. There is nothing a "reasonably competent" home wrench can not do on these cars. Wayne with his books and this forum are right here for support too. If you are going to pay somebody else to work on it, you better have a good bank balance/income. HTH The model year rocks.

[Jack Olsen]

Gotta plug VTK in this thread, the club for 1972 911 owners.

If you own a 72, you're automatically a member.

[Matt Smith]

I have a 72.
I'm curious as to what the issues are with this year?
Whatever, if you're keen enough to indulge in an early 911 regardless of the year there will be issues.
I'm sure that trans seal is quoted by 'sources' purely to scare people off! I certainly don't loose sleep over it. If it goes, then it will be fixed. Honestly, wrenching on these cars is not difficult. They come apart nicely, go back together easily and are a delight to work on.
I've said this before, but the 72 T is an absolute bargain: counter balanced crank, MFI (glorious), most of them have the 'appearance group' mods, and often the full S suspension (sway bars etc).

Basically you have an S without the big breathing S engine and aluminium calipers. But with plenty of streetable/weekend fun TORQUE. My 72 T is certainly no slouch whatsoever!!. All this without -although I seriously doubt forever- the price. Of course, everything is upgradable to whatever spec you wish. I'm keeping mine mostly stock, but that's personal preference.

Add to that you get exclusive membership to the VDK and an oil flap to tell stories about. WOW!!

[rich22]

Originally posted by JackOlsen
If you click on the "Press" link in my signature, you can read the Excellence article. In fairness to the phrase "building up," I swapped a larger motor into my car.

Or he can read the fifty threads here with detail and pictures.

Well-hidden rust can be more expensive to repair than the car is worth if you have to pay a shop to fix it. See the project 911 in Classic Motorsports. The relatively minor rust in the package tray area ended up looking like it would cost a couple thousand dollars to have a shop repair. I took a 71T on a test drive once.
Everything felt good, body looked great. This was around 1980 so it wasn't all that old. Then I crawled underneath and the undercarriage was riddled with rust, near suspension attachment points. It was basically a parts car to me.

[Jim Richards]

Jay - I have been reading about mainshaft seals and the problems they cause on this model when they leak. I guess a lot of the guys that own one of these cars may have modified this problem away. Or, it may not be as serious as I assume by reading the ariticle I am reading. But to answer you, this is a concern.

Eddie, the 72 thru mid-73 915 transaxles have this special seal that does require opening the case to replace it. I had this done last year while at the same time taking care of some balky synchros. In the big scheme of things, it's no big deal, and next time I will do the work myself (why not?). Maintenance on my 73E has been easy and not too costly. I've spent a lot more on refreshing things as this car is a rolling restoration project and part time track car. This Fall I'm spending $$$ to rebuild my engine to 2.7RS specs. It really only has a slight need for a top end refresh, but I'm going to make it a little more lively and hopefully it'll last me a long time.

You're going to enjoy your car a lot. No worries!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Rust, the only thing that can kill a 911. Find a really good shop that's experienced with early 911s, and have them do a thorough PPI. For the rust that you see, there's ten times more that you can't. If there's much, especially structural, and you can't do the work yourself, repair cost will easily exceed the price/ value of the car. If it's not all that bad, buy it, early cars are great, and the 72s are truly unique.

[rattlsnak]

Jack, cool link. I have a '72 also, and never heard of the VTK club!

[techweenie]

It's funny, for a long time, I took my car to a shop in Santa Monica run by a crusty old fart. I designed and helped him publish a book, "The Used 911 Story" wherein he pronounces the '72T the low point in recent Porsche history.

He never had that much credibility with me, and at the moment, I have two '72s.

Tony at TLG can do the internal mainshaft seal replacement so that it lasts a long time. I've seen cars as late as April '73 builds that still had the internal seals, by the way.

[limble]

Where has the car been most of it's life and how much winter weather (salt) has it seen. If it has a "little rust" and was driven in Minnesota during the winter, yes some people do it, then forget it. If it has a "little rust" and it has been in Arizona, then maybe it's ok.
I bought my 70 from a guy in Minnesota that stored it winters. The paint was tired so I stripped it down to bare metal, pulled off everything possible and didn't see any rust.
Have it checked out.

[eddiec]

Techweenie - You have the source. I "hear" great things about the car but when I "read" something bad I tend to have a concern. You have to admit he makes the 1972 sound pretty bad. I also read in this issue of Excellence that the 1972 was a "particular favorite" of Bruce Anderson. And this of course, makes the 1972 sound real good.

I called the owner again today and had more questions regarding the rust. A photo of the damaged area shows it in the rear corner of doorjam along the lower edge of the door frame and the door threshold with some damage up the doorjam itself. There may be a great deal more than that, but that is all that you can see in the photo.

Thanks for all the input from everyone!