Need help with my 951 Fuchs

[jazzbass]

Last October I picked up a set of new wheels for my Carrera - 951 8s in the front and 930 9s for the back. On the 8s when I bought them was a set of 205/55 Toyo Proxies. With these, the 8s fit on the front of the car no problems. Now that DE season is coming around, the Toyos had to go (very little tread left - so I bought some 225/50 Yoko ES100s. After putting them on the car last night, I have to say - they don't look like they even come close to fitting right. Look at how far the tires stick out of the fender well:



So here are my questions to all you guys with the 951 8s on the front:

1. Does this look about right - pre mod, that is?
2. What tire size are you running? 225/50? 225/45? 205/55?
3. What is your ride height in the front?
4. Fenders rolled/shaved/both?
5. How much neg camber?
6. How far does the tire stick out of the fender well?

Right now, my ride height is at 26.625" in the front, but will be lowered to ~ 25.5" soon. No fender rolling, no negative camber - yet. I'm trying to figure out if I need to swap the 225/50s for some 225/45s.

Thanks!

[Bill Verburg]

That's about right for the +23.3mm 8" Fuchs w/225/50 tires. Your options are to run extra negative camber and or 225/45 tires.

I run 235/45x17 on 8" rims with 2.2mm more + o/s and that is about the limit for street alignment at 25.5" front height. Shaved lips and shaved fender/bumper joint.

My next set of fronts will be 235/40x17 to allow a tad more lowering and retain street alignment.

[Par911]

Chris, no those definitely do not look right!! What are you going for, the low rider look? I will do you a favor and trade you my fuchs for your 8's&9's. Do not believe what anyone else on this forum says, they will not work properly on your carrera and you need to give them to me.

[jazzbass]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
That's about right for the +23.3mm 8" Fuchs w/225/50 tires. Your options are to run extra negative camber and or 225/45 tires.

Thanks Bill. I guess from your perspective the pictures above look about right then.

Help me understand - I know running 225/45s would resude the overall height of the tire. Would it help with the width (i.e. actually getting the rubber under the lip)? My understanding is that the 225/45 would be the same width, so I'd think the camber setting would probably have to be about the same. I think no matter what I'm going to have to go with the 225/45s, I just want to try and understand how much more work I'm going to have to make these things fit.

Hey Pari - thanks for your concern - I really appreciate it. I'll let you know if I decide to take you up on your generous offer.

[Bill Verburg]

It's hard to tell from the pic but it doesn't look that bad. Here's mine

From the front it looks to be wide becase the front of the car narrow from the wheel forward.

Not all 225s are the same the 225/50x16 Yokos on an 8" rim will measure 9.1" x 24.9" (section x height) 225/45 will be 9.7" x 24.6".

Other manufactirers will measure slightly differently

[Par911]

Hey Pari - thanks for your concern - I really appreciate it. I'll let you know if I decide to take you up on your generous offer.

Chris, my pleasure. The offer is out there, maybe we could work out a tail for wheels swap. Honestly, I don't really see that much of a difference from how they are now compared to how they were with the Toyo's. I think they look fine. When you look at the old tires, they were sticking out a little too.

[Todd Simpson]

That looks normal. I'm running 225/50's with ride height at 25". 2.5 degrees of negative camber, lips rolled flat and it's still very close.

[KTL]

One thing to also keep in mind. Yokohama ES100's are typically the widest street tire when you compare their 225/50 (or any other size) another manufacturer. It's just a wide tire.

Like Bill said, some negative camber is definitely in order (factory camber spec. may not give you as much front grip as you might like anyway) along with the fender clearancing.

Bill, what's the rule of thumb again for how much the added rim width will stretch the section width of the tire?

[jazzbass]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Keep 'em coming - I'd like to hear from several members of the 951 Fuchs club regarding their setup.

Bill makes an excellent point about the section widths. I looked up my tires on TireRack.com and found the 225/50s have a section width of 8.9" on a 7" rim. The rule of thumb (according to TR) is to add 2/10" for each 1/2" of rim variation, so the section width of the 225/50s on my 8s would be 9.3". The 225/45s have a section width of 8.9" on a 7.5" rim, or 9.1" on my car. By comparison, the 205/55s I had on before had a section width of about 8.3" on a 6.5" rim, or 8.9" on my car.

So if I go with the 224/45s, I'll only be 0.2" wider. Anyone else running 225/45s in the front? Any drawbacks to this? I'd imagine the ride would be a little harsher.

[KTL]

Originally posted by jazzbass
So if I go with the 224/45s, I'll only be 0.2" wider. Anyone else running 225/45s in the front? Any drawbacks to this? I'd imagine the ride would be a little harsher.

Thanks for the info. on the change in sect. width with more rim width.

There was a recent post by Wavey about this same subject and 89911 posted a number of pictures with different wheel and tire sizes mounted up front. He (Mike) started with 225/50 Bridgestone SO-3 in front and had difficulties. Ended up putting the 225/45 on there. Worked better, and looks better (IMO) with the 225/45.

The only drawback is a little more fender-to-tire gap and less ground clearance. Of course this is because the 225/45 tire has a shorter overall dia. than the 225/50. Theoretically, it's a little less than an inch (~ 0.9 in.).

[Bill Verburg]

Bill, what's the rule of thumb again for how much the added rim width will stretch the section width of the tire?

The .2" per .5" of rim is the rule I've been using for the last 30yrs seems to work well. The tire also gets ~.1" lower per .5" of rim

Its very easy to turn 245/45x16 into 26-/34x16

[89911]

That profile looks about right with little negative camber. You need to pull the tops of those wheel in to clear you wheel wells. If you have stiff torsion bars, this helps, along with a rolled inner fender lip. It will gouge the tires when it interferes.

[jwetering]

I've got 205's on my 951 8's - I don't think 225's would fit.

[KTL]

Many people make 225's fit. Most 205 tires are actually slightly narrow for an 8 inch width wheel. Recommended wheel width for a 205 is anywhere from 5.5 to 7.5 inches, depending on the tire manufacturer. But occasionally you'll find a 205 tire that is recommended to fit an 8 inch wheel. Dunlop SP Sport 4000 is one tire that i've seen.

Hey, whatever works!

[89911]

All the trouble to get an 8" wheel up front is to put on a 225 tire. If your going with a 205, I would just use a 7" fuch.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by jwetering
I've got 205's on my 951 8's - I don't think 225's would fit.

I have run 245/45-16 Hoosiers and Kumho V700s on my 8" 951 Fuchs in the front on my stock narrow-body '73 for years with no problems (w/ rolled fender lips, 1.5 negative camber, 21mm Front T-bars).


TT

[JeremyD]

225/50/16 on a 951 rim here with rolled fenders. These are Yokohama AVS sports - tire rack has a nifty area of their site that gaves accurate dimensions on their tires - as Bill said - the same 225 can vary significantly.



Next time I would go with a 45 series tire - I have a little rubbing when I tried to lower it some more.

Now I did space out my rears a little to make them fill out the rear fenders a little more like the fronts

[marcesq]

Chris:

I have 225/45-16s ES 100s mounted to 951 8" phone dials if you want to try them on the front of your car.

I did last year and there was no problem, small amount of - camber, but my lips are rolled.