Another RSR Clone Project

tom1394racing · 04-25-2004, 01:54 PM

Hello Pelecanites!

I am in the midst of an RSR Clone project. I though I'd post a little background information to get some of you guys familair with it. I'll be asking for advice from time to time and I'll be happy to share any experience that I've had that might be helpful to any of you.

My starting point is a 1973 1/2 911T that I purchased last July in New Mexico. The car had over 200,000 miles on it but was rust free and never been in an accident. I had it checked out by a shop in Albequreque (sp?) that was recommended by the president of the local PCA who also happened to have been a former owner of the car. I drove it from Aug through Oct and then started the project. The car ran great and replicated the 20-60, 40-80 and 60-100 acceleration times listed in Excellence for the car when it was original.

My project plan is to make the car look as close to an original '73 RSR as is practically possible. I plan to drive the car on the street and to build my track driving skills to the point where I will vintage and PCA club race it.

My plan is as follows:
1. Strip the shell and remove the undercoating from the wheel wells and engine compartment

2. I've got the premier CT based 911 expert doing the body work to add fibergalss RSR front and rear flares, trunk lid and engine lid with ducktail. I'm staying with the orignal color and having black Carrera graphics added.

3. The engine will be a 3.0 SC motor that I will rebiuld myself with JE 9.8:1 pistons, 911S cams, PMO carbs and SSI's. Will run on pump gas. (250 HP???)

4. The front suspension will have a late model Carrera aluminum cross member and A arms, 23 mm torsion bars with JRZ raised spindle struts with double adjustable shocks and the S calipers that came with the car. Zimmerman crossed drilled rotors.

5. The rear suspension will have adjustable spring plates with aluminum trailing arms and 28mm torsion bars. I'm planning on the orinal calipers. Zimmerman crossed drilled rotors.

6. I'm going to rebuild the 915 gearbox with "airport gerars" and plan on using the full Wevo shifter/gate/coupler setup. Not sure about limited slip at this point.

7. Inside, I'm going with Recaro Speeds, a welded replica roll bar and the standard repro door panel and carpeting. I've stripped all the sound deading material from the interior.

8. I've got a set of four 6X16 Fuschs that I will be having modified to 16X9 fronts and 16X11 rears by the same guy who is doing my body work.

As you can see from the photos I'm into the undercoating removal at this stage. I'm using an industrial heat gun with a paint scaper followed by final removal with a Wurth DBS 3500 metal cleaning tool. What a time consuming process!!!

Anyway...I'd love to get comments/advice from any of you experts that have been down this path before me. This is my first project of this magnitiude so any help would be appreciated

tom1394racing · 04-25-2004, 01:55 PM

Hey

I tried to include photos but my JPG files were too big. What can I do to get some of my photos out?

sundaypunch · 04-25-2004, 03:33 PM

Do you have a paint program or Microsoft Photo Editor (it's in the Office bundle)? You need to resize your pic's and then upload.

Sounds like a fun project.

geof33 · 04-25-2004, 05:42 PM

Hi,

Welcome to the board!!! Click on "user cp" at the top... You have a PM or "private message"...

Jack Olsen · 04-25-2004, 08:13 PM

Sounds like a really cool project. Can you get decent tires for 16x11 wheels? I always thought most people had the Fuchs made into 17's because of tire availability.

23/28 t bars sound, to me, like too heavy in the front. However, people do these combinations in a lot of different ways. Why not 23/30?

geof33 · 04-25-2004, 09:07 PM

Jack,

While we are on the subject of wheels... aren't yours 11X15?? In terms of tire availability, would you do anything different? I'm sizing up a couple of sets of 9/11x15's and wonder if, in the long run (usability), I'll regret it and wish I had gone to a more readily available size... They look sweet no doubt, but that's alotta $$$ to plink down for wheels... especially if they become "obsolete". Whacha think?

Jack Olsen · 04-25-2004, 09:42 PM

Mine are 9.5x11x17's for that exact reason. Outside of concours restorations, I don't think the 15's make sense.

geof33 · 04-25-2004, 09:45 PM

I'm sure this was covered before... Did you have those made Jack? What did they set you back if you don't mind me asking?

Jack Olsen · 04-25-2004, 10:24 PM

Here's a link. The price has gone up recently, unfortunately.

geof33 · 04-25-2004, 10:39 PM

Yep, figured it out... Thanks Jack!!

phe · 06:23 AM

tom1394racing,

Have good times. Your config is 95% mine. Go for it, you wont regret. I can get most of the 3.6 bastard....

For your information

Yokohama deliver 285/40R15 again here in europe(I guess in US too). YOOPPPPEEEEE. Now a small stock is at home.

15 is more "fun" to drive, you get a better feeling. Only personal.

On normal road it is a way for your back to survive the track settings of the P.

9/15 and 11/15 are the historical dimensions.

Ok it doesn't help for your 16.

But Jack is right, if you have to buy wheels go for 17.

Another point is the weigth...And there is only 2 solutions that I know, Fusch(real) and BBS(magnesium). $$$$$$

I must admit that the jack's fusch in 17 is a great solution.

Another comment, if you have no restrictions, go for carrera 2 (4 pistons) front brakes on Carrera 3.2l disks.

This setting do the job perfectly(pagid orange) and you will have a lot less problem to maintain.

phe

rpiper · 04-26-2004, 06:36 AM

Sounds like a really fun project. If the end goal is a PCA racing car it will not be competitive in GT3, but I guess that's pretty far down the road for you. I would just keep in mind what you want the car to be at the end, because you don't want to have to do everything twice or three times (BTDT). For a street/DE car it will be a riot. I would say limited slip is imperative, as are larger torsions in the rear than 28. I had 21/34 combo on my G class car. Big sways would be good too.

masraum · 04-26-2004, 08:00 AM

Wow, LSD will be imperative with 11 rear tires? I'm not being a smart azz, just surprised, but I guess it would be important for hard cornering to keep the inside wheel from spinning, right?

Lukesportsman · 04-26-2004, 09:14 AM

Steve, I agree, but I guess it depends on setup. Enough sway bar and I guess you could lighten the inner wheel sufficiently. Wow, 34 rear bar....thats quite a stagger and I would think we s&*k on the street in a lightweight. I realize yours is a class car, Bobby, but it didn't sound like his was heading that way. But what do I really know, I didn't even know that a 34 would fit

, hollow I'm guessing.

tom1394racing · 04-26-2004, 04:44 PM

Thanks to all of you who have taken an interest and replied to my post.

I'll try to respond to the points that yopu have made:

Tires- I'm planning on using 245/45R16 & 245/40R16 Pirellis like the ones that Barret Smith used on his RSR clone featured in Excellence May 2004. Anyone have any experience with these sizes??

Tbars- I'm looking for a good compromise for street/track driving. I bought the suspension from a fellow PCA club member who is converting his early 911 to coil-overs. The stock bars are 18/23 F/R so 23/28 is an equal increase in stiffness front to rear. Am I missing something??

Limited slip- I've heard differing opinions on this. For $1000 on a street car that I will learning to drive competitvely, I have been advised that I do not need to spend for limited slip. On the other hand, I'll have plenty of $$ into this car so that the extra for limited slip will not be that big an expense overall. What type of limited slip would you guys recommend?

Overall competiveness - I know this car will not be a competitve race car at this point. But I am not yet a competitve driver and I may decide to stay with a purely hot rod street car. If I get serious about racing, I will probably convert to coil-over, high comepression and twin plug race gas motor.

Keep the comments coming, I appreciate you input.

Jack Olsen · 04-26-2004, 05:12 PM

It sucks to be constrained on tires just for the sake of correctness, in my opinion. And 16's aren't even correct to the RSR. Pirellis are not very good tires.

Barret had 15's, last time I saw, and had to have grooves cut into Avon slicks to manage 'street tires.'

If you want to track the car, then 17's are the way to go. I'm sure your wheel guy can make then.

If you get a limited slip, and plan on tracking the car, the ZF one is the way to go.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

I just want to point out that 18s are even better from a performance point of view, w/ aan even better selection of rubber.

the best diff is a split lockup diff which is not available for 915(yet) , next best is a ZF

geof33 · 04-26-2004, 08:00 PM

Wow, 245's would work on a 9" rim and on an 11 almost unreasonable. I run 245's on my 8's...

I'm going with the 17's Jack has. Reasonably priced and can be customized for your car in terms of color match, polish or whatever...

rpiper · 04-27-2004, 06:52 AM

My car's suspension was horrible for the street. It was strictly a race car, and no fun anywhere else. The lsd is imperative in any kind of competition setting, so as long the 915 is apart for a rebuild and regearing, it's the time to add one. A ZF type is the way to go. I got a ZF type from GT, made of chromalloy (sp?) with extra clutches to get to 80% (a bear in the paddock but wonderful on track). I would further suggest that if you do get serious about racing, that you buy a dedicated STOCK class race car. In GT someone will always outspend you, and you will want to be racing someone's driving skill, not their checkbook. In the stock class the fastest guys always have similar setups, so it becomes almost a spec class, and when you win it's because you outdrove the other guys.

phe · 04-27-2004, 07:33 AM

There is a huge gap between track days and racing.

Such settings are most track days car. I mean you burn a lot of modern cars with your small old 911 and this is great fun.

But for racing, stock challenges are the best, it is better to have comparable cars between the drivers, but this is not the same story (budget,schedules,...) sadly not on my budget.

To come back on tires, forget the 245 on 11'. no good, no need certainly not possible. max should be around 9' for those tires.

By exemple I am driving 285/40R15 Yoko AVS on road (look,fun), but on track(performance) -> 225/50R15 Yoko 032R. The grip is a lot better.

Did you already try "R" tires?

7.5 and 9 by 17 are more than you need on track 225/45 and 255/40.

go for 032R, pirelli corsa, pilot sport cup. this already terrible for a SC shape/engine.

phe