Lower steering bearing help

[jrobb911]

I am having some steering wheel slop from the lower steering bearing in the steering tube. The main bearing that usually wears out is working fine and tight from the metal insert sold on the site. My steering wheel has up and down slop in the lower part of the tube. Im sure there is a bearing or something in the lower part to keep the steering in place. How do I get the steering column or tube out to replace the bearing or whatever is at the bottom? It would look like this rivet? need removed?

[Mitch Leland]

jrobb911, "My steering wheel has up and down slop in the lower part of the tube".

I don't think the up and down "slop" you're speaking of is indicative of a bad bearing. If you had a bad bearing it would show up in a radial slop.

I believe if you do a search there are other members who have removed their steering columns, but in your case I would look further before doing that. Have you looked in the PET to review the parts in the steering column?

Did I miss whether you have an early or late car? I guess it's a late car since you have the steel shim installed. You have the "C" clip on the steering shaft (be sure that's the correct "C" clip), where's the star washer.

This pix is part of Pelican's bushing install instructions...

[jrobb911]

mitch, it's not from teh bearing closest to the steering wheel. That bearing is working good and tight from using the steel shim insert. Maybe it has just up and down movement right now cause the lower bearing is missing some needle bearings and as the car is sitting it makes it just up and down movements.

From reading other posts I see what the "rivet" thing is and will grind a slot in it to unscrew it. I still don't understand why anything would need to be removed in the truck area. Shouldn't the tube move toward the cabin and slide off the shaft?

Getting to the steering nuckles that go to the smuggler box is a major pain in the ass. I don't see how to get some of that stuff out of the way. Is the first nuckle easier to get to?

[jrobb911]

It's an 83 sc

[Mitch Leland]

I understand that you're talking about the lower steering column bearing, I just wanted to be sure what caused the up and down play before you tore into removing the column. I've never done it, from what I've heard the column and shaft have to come out the bottom of the car.

[jrobb911]

Anyone done this on an SC. Removed the 8" steering tube to replace the lower steering bearing? From the feel of it there is a bearing maybe 7 inches from the end where the steering wheel is.

[jrobb911]

Maybe im not describing myself properly so I found a picuture. Alot of larger issues are tackled here everyday.
Part #12 is working fine and is tight. The slop I feel is near the end of part #1 (on the left of this picture) I envision a "lower steering bearing" here to keep the splined shaft straight in the tube, but I don't see one listed here. Is there any bearing near this that would allow some slop? Maybe something that holds the end of the splined shaft as it enters the truck area.

[Flieger]

Are you sure it is not in one of the universal joints? I believe they can be seen by removing the plastic cover from inside the smuggler's box.

[Walt Fricke]

Robb

Yes, there is a lower bearing. Right down at the forward end of the steering column tube.

It is very unlikely that it is bad, if my experience is anything to go by. My race car started life in 1968. In 1995 or so I disassembled all the steering, which included removing this front bearing. It was fine, I put it back in, and 16 race and DE years later it is still fine. Ditto with my '77.

If memory serves, it is held in with a circlip (or perhaps circlips, one on each side). I recall it to be a ball bearing.

There is no way to access it without a lot of work, so resign yourself to that. You must remove the rearmost U joint no matter what, so you need to remove the cover in the trunk which is over the rearmost of the U jointed splined shafts. And I suspect that to get at the U joint you will need to remove some of the air handling apparatus.

To pull the main steering column you need to remove not only the headless bolt you show, but two similar ones which are rearward of that one (#11 in the parts diagram you show). You also need to remove the ignition interlock, which may also require removing the whole ignition. I had all this stuff out when I had a new front end put on my '77.

If the part of the parts diagram you have went down farther, you would see PN 900.052.031.00 (or something superceding it) as the bearing. For a 2.7 parts book that would be on page 4/3/1. I think it is the same from the beginning at least through the 3.2s.

Just how have you determined that this bearing is what is failing? But color me doubtful that you can elicit this kind of motion through a good rear (by the steering wheel) bearing. It does not have the plastic bits which fail on the other bearing.

I would not count it bad until I had gone in through the trunk, and at a minimum pulled off the bracket which holds an intermediate bearing in the smuggler's box. And removed the U joint just above it. And pulled the paper-like cover. And reached up to the front end of the steering column in the trunk, grabbed the U joint on the shaft there, and tested it at that point. If you can wiggle it up and down and sideways, OK - you were right.

Walt

[KTL]

Check out my post #17 in this thread where you'll see the bearing you're questioning

Did the steering wheel sleeve fix today

Be sure to read the link in my #17 post as well.

You can see as Walt said, it's a ball bearing, not a needle bearing. This bearing is actually un-sealed (think rear axle bearings, without the seal ring snapped in place) on one side for some reason. So it is possible this bearing could go bad when the grease dries and dirt has contaminated the bearing roller areas. That said, it's a pretty sturdy bearing because it's all-metal unlike the infamous upper bearing at the steering wheel. I bought one of these bearings thinking i'd replace it as a matter of course since I was already in there on account of fully disassembling the column. Well since that bearing is open-ended, you can simply hose out the grease with a good solvent like brake cleaner and then repack it with fresh grease. I prefer synthetic that tends to not separate or dry up as easily with age.

That parts diagram you posted is helpful but also misleading. Your diagram gives the indication that the bolts (these are actually "shear" bolts, which have necked heads on them that snap off when you tighten them- a security/theft deterrent) attaching the upper part of the steering column tube would thread into the bracket on the column tube from the bottom. That's not the case. The tube bracket has square nuts welded on the underneath side of the bracket and the bolts are installed from the top. The only way to get to these shear bolts is to remove the tachometer.

A good way to get these shear bolts out is a mini vise grip pliers. The curved jaw type work best. Cutting a slot works okay, but you can get more leverage with a set of pliers than you can with a screwdriver. Save the slot cutting for the ignition lockset.........

When you read the link I posted in the above link (this topic: Steering column bushing ordered...any tips? ) ignore my comments about tapping a new upper bearing atop the old bearings. That trick/hack repair is only do-able on older columns (1960's???) that don't have a flange inside them to seat the bearing.

[jrobb911]

I will do some looking again for the 3rd time tomorrow before I start tearing things apart. I attempted to remove the the plastic cover off the steering nuckles that come from the smugglers box but there is not way without removing a ton of crap. I don't want to mess with the master cylinder so that leaves the box that takes in fresh air at the bottom of the windshield but I couldn't get the black grate off without bending it up. After I get the cover off there shouldn't be any movement except radial movement when the steering is turned right? Any better way to determine what is loose?

I still suspect the lower bearing because the upper bearing is tight with the metal repair sleeve installed, the steering shaft connected to the steering wheel is maybe 1.5 feet long and sounds like it is connected to the steering tube at 2 places. Since the upper bearing isn't moving the slop I feel has to be the tube or the lower bearing in the tube.

[jrobb911]

Resorted to taking out the steering column. Wow, what a pain in the ass. The lower steering bearing is loose in the tube. I removed it with my finger, no punch or anything required. I have ordered a new upper and lower and hope it will need to be driven in to tighten up the steering wheel. The bearing has pretty good action but the thick grease used keeps it from spinning like a skateboard wheel. Maybe it has been spinning in the tube and rounded it out a bit? The bearing portion of the tube on the lower bearing between the c-clips is just a fuzz larger than the inside diameter of the tube. Is this wear or usual?
Hopefully I can remember where everything goes.

[Mitch Leland]

Robb,

Looks like you were right in your original diagnosis... There's a good chance that the bearing being harden steel once it began to slip in the steering tube has worn the I.D. of the steering tube. There has to be a press fit. I would suggest if the new bearing doesn't have a press fit to go back with a Lock-tite bearing locker. If it's grossly under size then you have another problem.

However have you established where the "up and down" play came from? The spinning bearing isn't going to solve that, or is it?

[sjf911]

What about hard chroming the exterior of the new bearing to fit the worn steering tube ID?

[Zeke]

Man, you'd have to have sensitive hands to feel any slop in the lower bearing. Do the math on how much cantilever there is involved. Not too much. And the slop would be radial as suggested. However, the upper bearing on the Carrera I just sold needed replacement and the movement was primarily up and down.

Go figure.

Or perhaps the steering lock mechanism makes it that way.

[Mitch Leland]

Originally Posted by sjf911

What about hard chroming the exterior of the new bearing to fit the worn steering tube ID?

I don't think you could do that w/o getting the chrome on the balls of the ball bearing... that's a pretty exotic (expensive) solution for a simple problem.

[jrobb911]

I like the idea of the bearing locker goop, I think i felt it up and down cause of the steering lock mechanism. It has bugged me for a long time. I will see wednesday when the new bearing comes in if the play goes away.
What about the idea of flux and solder to fill the gap? It is really, really small.
Like a RCH.
That is a pretty standard bearing. What would be the next size up on the OD?

[Mitch Leland]

Originally Posted by jrobb911

I like the idea of the bearing locker goop, I think i felt it up and down cause of the steering lock mechanism. It has bugged me for a long time. I will see wednesday when the new bearing comes in if the play goes away.
What about the idea of flux and solder to fill the gap? It is really, really small.
Like a RCH.
That is a pretty standard bearing. What would be the next size up on the OD?

Robb,

I think you better wait until you get the new bearing and see what ya got... No, the solder won't work, it's too soft. And I doubt you'll find another bearing with the same I.D. and a slightly bigger O.D. However you can go to any bearing house and give them the present dimensions of your bearing and they can tell you if there's such an animal out there.

I still think a loctite product might still be your best bet. I went on line and found this Loctite product - LOCTITEŽ 660.

[Walt Fricke]

JR

As you have seen, that bearing is held in place with two circlips, one on each side of it. And it should be a light press fit, as Mitch says. I hauled out a spare just to check on that, as I had forgotten that part. It looks as if the housing is machined for the bearing's fit, as well as for the circlips.





That grease must have gotten really thick if it was hard enough that turning the wheel caused the outer race to rotate, and often enough that it wore the ID of the steering column main housing. I agree that the race material is surely much harder than the steering housing. The housing is cadmium plated, but it is likely to be ordinary mild steel, as it doesn't have to be stronger than that.

On the other hand, the bearing should not spin like a skateboard wheel - it needs a reasonably heavy grease, as its rotational speed needs are nil.

If it has that much slop, you can probably shim it. That might do a better job than using the green Loctite sleeve retainer. Some copper or thin brass shims slid in there, with the new bearing forced in between them, should do it. Then, again, green Loctite is potent stuff. You say there is very little sidewise play, so it might do the trick.

Me, I'd go to my local Porsche junkyard and get a used one. This problem is very unusual, and there can't be much demand for this part, as it is not a wear item. Or use one of the internet sellers of used parts.

Walt

[Mitch Leland]

Robb, it's one thing to have some radial play if your bearing if it was shot, but the up and down play is still another thing. As Walt as so graciously taken his time to lay out the parts for ya, it reminds me that I still think you might have lost one of your "C" clips. My guess it would be the upper one... Do you know if they were both in place?

Unless the entire roller bearing had broken down and the balls had all fallen out, then you might have had some up and down play. But from what you have said this is not the case...

It sounds to me like you had an electrical short, you wiggle some wires and now everything is OK, but you really don't know why you had the short in the first place...