Griffith's fender condenser dimensions

[scottb]

Bill, anything new?

[Dennis Kalma]

I am now in "parts collection" mode for my complete '89 rebuild/restoration. Plan is to install the C2 A/C set up in the drivers side front fender, as I do not especially like the rear location, what with engine heat, gravel off of the rear wheel etc etc.

So far parts that are proving necessary (and I have) are the C2 condenser, fan, mounting brackets and shrouds, hard lines (from engine compartment). Did a test fit, as expected, I will need to cut away the battery bulge and replace it with a flat piece, appears to be only necessary under the bumper support, so that makes it easier. A few days of hammerforming the part will be needed, but the goal is to make it so that it "looks" like it belonged there all the time. This will mean that the battery will get relocated, and smaller at that, further inside of the trunk.

Also have the C2 windshield washer tank (fits over the front wheel arch) and seems to be an easy fit. Also have the light aluminium compressor mount, which ought to save a few pounds off of the rear of the car.

Parts still necessary include the lines and reciever dryer and means to connect to the evaporator in the smugglers box. Not a big deal, just I would prefer to use aluminium lines for the most part, so it will be a bit of fussy work I am sure.

Not sure how this will all work out, but when I do a bit of weighing, I figure I will save a few pounds, move some weight from rear to front, get a better cooling system and overall have a better result.

Dennis

[scottb]

Originally posted by Dennis Kalma
Did a test fit, as expected, I will need to cut away the battery bulge and replace it with a flat piece, appears to be only necessary under the bumper support, so that makes it easier. A few days of hammerforming the part will be needed, but the goal is to make it so that it "looks" like it belonged there all the time. This will mean that the battery will get relocated, and smaller at that, further inside of the trunk.

Dennis: Why perform surgery on the car? The condenser I bought (pictured above) fit very nicely, and the only changes to the car were that I relocated the water bottle and replaced the vapor recovery tank with a smaller unit. No sheetmetal changes/mods were necessary.

[Dennis Kalma]

Probably no really good reasons, but here I go with a couple of bad ones. Being severely anally retentive, I really want to have a finished, durable look that does not expose the fins of the condenser to the crap thrown off of the wheel, which probably means some sort of shrouding/shielding at a minimum. Second, I am a big believer in providing a lot of condenser volume, the more the merrier, so the C2 condenser is a lot bigger than what yours looks like, but then again, I suppose it is in addition to the one on your engine grille? What I am envisioning is that this will be the only condenser in the car...

Lastly....it is sort of fun to figure it out. Just like I am busy working on getting a six speed transmission, which ought to be really entertaining to fit, just because I always wanted a six speed!

No criticism intended for anyone else who takes different approaches, I really respect those who live up to the engineering definition that...an engineer can do for a dollar what any fool can do for ten. I hold up the latter part of that statement.....

Dennis

[Mysterytrain]

Dennis,
I've been following this thread for months now and I have also been interested in using a C2 condensor up front inside the drivers fender. So are you saying that it will not fit unless the battery box ( I have a 78) is modified. Question number 2..If that is the case will the C2 condensor fit in the rear fender? I would like to delete my lid condensor and run with something in the fenders with or without the front lip unit, which my car does not have. Thanks, Ron

[plain fan]

Ron,
The battery box is not an issue on the 78 (I have a 78 as well), but the big concern on the 78 is the huge windshield washer reserve. I would recommend the 65-69 reserve or the C2 reserve which is curved and designed to mount above the wheel.

[brcorp]

Originally posted by Mysterytrain
I've been following this thread for months now...

Is this a hint Ron?

No new progress, been too busy with other projects. All I really have to do is bolt the condenser back in. Anyway it's cool here and I'm not really driving the car much. I'll finish it soon as the warmer weather is just around the corner.

Originally posted by Dennis Kalma
Being severely anally retentive, I really want to have a finished, durable look that does not expose the fins of the condenser to the crap thrown off of the wheel, which probably means some sort of shrouding/shielding at a minimum. Second, I am a big believer in providing a lot of condenser volume, the more the merrier.....What I am envisioning is that this will be the only condenser in the car...Dennis

The install includes a heat shield and gravel/debri guard. Will look as factory as the front fender condenser.

Why would you delete the other condensers in the car and rely only on the C2 condenser. This would work great in conjunction with the others but not as a stand alone.

[Dennis Kalma]

Curious as to whether the C2 condenser and fan housing could be fit without removing a portion of the battery bulge. My fitting suggests not, but then maybe I am not trying hard enough. One thing I am concerned with is that since I want to use only the one condenser, it will need good airflow, so some clearance has to be made for that....

In terms of rear mounting the C2 condenser, I think it ought to be possible as there is more room back there. Certainly there are some good reasons (proximity, space) for taking that route, but part of my logic is to use the stock aluminium refrigerant lines, and that would be more problematic with the condenser in the rear.

Water tank is clearly the big issue, choices are as described. I went with the C2 tank, it is bigger and I get to keep my headlight washers (have enough reserve with the C2 tank), plus it tucks up neatly in the fender well. Don't have enough experience with the early tank to say where it might fit best....

Lastly, in terms of capacity, I am assuming that the C2 AC is reasonably well balanced in terms of condenser/evaporator balance. I measured the volumes of both, you want about 25% more condenser volume than evaporator volume and the C2 condenser has about 240 cubic inches of volume and the standard '89 smuggler box evaporator has about 200-210 cubic inches of volume. So not ideal, but fairly close....reasonable in other words.

Must agree that leaving one of the other condensers would make it even better, I'd definitely want to get rid of the rear mounted one, always hated that thing, adding weight to the rear, heating up my engine air, scraping the skin off of my balding head etc etc, but it may make good sense to keep the front one. Not sure about the front's volume, but the main thing I have against it is the lines would get sort of convoluted and it would probably offend my anal retentiveness a bit.

Great thread by the way, now I just need to find someone with a spare front inner fender liner from a C2 that they are willing to part with for a fair price.....

Dennis

[Mysterytrain]

Grady, Bill, Dennis..happy new year. Lets see, so thats good news Grady I can continue my quest for a C2 condensor and fan and go with removing the washer bottle and maybe installing a C2 bottle. Dennis, you need to take pictures for us all to share your anal retentiveness ( is that really two words) Bill..lol wasn't a hint glad to see you are still on the case..I've had a few projects of my own going. But I am looking forward to seeing how your system works for you. I've always hated the rear condensor and thought there had to be a better way to cool the car and not cook the engine. I'm thinking front and or rear fender units would be great or maybe front fender and front valance would also work.

[john hejmanowsk]

FWIW, I fitted the C2 front condensor into my 77 without doing any work to the 'battery bulge'. The condensor and fan just fit (had to remove the washer bottle). Actually it may be too tight for optimum air flow. With this condensor and a procooler, I was getting vent temps in the high 40s. I put the rear condensor back into the circuit and the vent temps went down to the upper 30s.

Oil temp did not seem to be effected by adding the rear condensor, but I have the carrera cooler with fan...

Also, I'm using R134.

[brcorp]

Originally posted by john hejmanowsk
FWIW, I fitted the C2 front condensor into my 77 without doing any work to the 'battery bulge'.

Pictures please.

Ron and all,

In addition to the condenser behind the left rear tire, I'm also working on putting one in front of the rear tire. Similar in concept to Griffith's configuration for about 1/8 the cost.

Also, I'm looking for a dead compressor as I'm in need of the clutch assembly.

[Dennis Kalma]

An update, spent a couple of hours today crawling around the '89 seeing whether I could fit the C2 condenser and fan assembly into the drivers side fender without cutting sheet metal (thanks for the inspiration John H.!!)....looks like it will fit. Made a few changes, mainly that I rotated the fan shroud and condenser 90 degrees, so the short side (it is about 11 x 14) is the vertical dimension. This has the added advantage of giving a couple of inches more ground clearance (shroud is now above the front suspension mounting points).

I was wondering if there was any issues with the primary runs of the condenser coil running parallel to the ground as opposed to the stock C2 vertical runs, Vintage Air's book show only condensers with parallel to the ground coils, so that is good enough for me.

I still need to fabricate the mounting brackets, will need to weld some mounting bolts through the inner fender to hang the whole thing on....but that is not an issue at all.

Air flow looks to be good, but I want to get the front fender out and check it all once I get it roughed in to make sure that the inlet area is about the same size as the fan outlet area....a little concerned that the fan exhaust is into a pretty crowded area, but I'll see what kind of balance I can make. If desperate I may have to louver the front valance....well, maybe not....

I will keep posting this, plus with pics once I have something to show. Note that my last 911 took 13 years to complete, I am not fast, but as the thread on do-it-yourself painting shows, the result is usually alright.


Dennis

[brcorp]

Originally posted by Dennis Kalma
I was wondering if there was any issues with the primary runs of the condenser coil running parallel to the ground as opposed to the stock C2 vertical runs.

That would be the best orientation.

Originally posted by Mysterytrain
"condenser tubes should be mounted in a horizontal orientation. Mounting the tubes vertically will cause the lower elbows to collect refrigerant oil and create exessive head pressure."

[Dennis Kalma]

Makes perfect sense to have the tubes running horizontally, sorta makes you wonder how much the engineers at Porsche understand air conditioning when the stock orientation was vertical....sigh.

Dennis

[niner11]

Can't let this thread die! I know its about the coldest time of the year but I'm test fitting some of the A/C components that I've picked up the last few months.

I'm still looking for pics of a 964 condenser install in the drivers front fender. It looks possible without cutting anything as it will be mounted at an angle. I'll take a look on monday and see if I have any ideas to contribute.

[Dennis Kalma]

I've been fiddling with it over the past few weekends, and I too conclude that it should fit without cutting. Where I am right now is using a small bracket extending from the top of the frame over to the headlight bucket, and then using a rod, a la the rubber "button" that the C2 uses for its top mount. I'll be needing a hole in the headlight bucket, but that isn't a problem. I tried fabbing another bracket for the lower rear, but that is still in progress.

BTW, I am still using the C2 condenser, rotated so that the tubes are parallel to the road. I am concerned that it is fairly close to the front tire, but once I build a stone shield it should be OK...

I will try and take pix, but think it may not be until the weekend. Oh yes, I am concerned about airflow from the fan as the fan is fairly close to the outer fender....

Dennis

[niner11]

scottb, I'm trying to figure out the hose routing for my a/c lines with the factory condensers (82SC) , left fender condenser and a procooler.

I'm just guessing that lines go from the front condenser to the wheelwell (964 condenser) to the procooler. Another line would go from the procooler to the evaporator then back from the evaporator to the procooler. From the procooler then the suction goes back to the compressor. The more I read this the less sense it makes. Help! Chuck

[scottb]

Chuck: Here's what I did:

The a/c line that runs from the back of the car up to the front condenser (stock, in front of the trunk) was rerouted to the new condenser in the fender. Then a line was run from the new condenser to the stock front condenser. Basically the new condenser was installed in series with the stock condenser.

As to the ProCooler...I simply installed it using the instructions supplied with the unit.

I hope this helps.

Scott

[niner11]

that makes sense, thanks

[brcorp]

Glad to see this thread is still active even though I haven't made any signififcant contributions lately. That will change soon.