Griffith's fender condenser dimensions

[philipguziec]

Heads-up:

You might want to reconsider mounting the unit in the area in front of the rear wheel instead. Heat is conducted three ways, conduction, convection, and radiation. While you should be drawing reasonably cool air for convection and you aren't touching the hot exhaust for conduction, you might have a real problem with radiation. Just having very hot exhaust that close to a black (highly accepting of radiative heat transfer) heat exchanger, you might find that the condenser gets warmer than ambient, even with the fan on. I think you'd get better performance in front of the rear wheel in my "engineering judgement". Or, I could be full of B.S.

Good luck.

Phil

[brcorp]

I'm fully aware of the heat tansfer issues/concerns and do not consider it a significant issue. On the surface it may appear to be a problem especially if the car was just sitting and never moving but the reality is the car does move and in a free air stream environment radiant heat transfer in the exhaust / condenser area will be non-existent. That is my engineering judgment.

I've considered the area in front of the rear tire though I'm having trouble locating a condenser to fit. That will be the next project.

BTW, you're not fully of BS you posted a avalid concern.

Thanks for the input.

[brcorp]

And the saga continues.

Got the brackets completed all I need now is the hoses.

I'm going swimming now, be sure to tune in next week end, same bat time, same bat channel.....

[Jim Sims]

"in a free air stream environment radiant heat transfer in the exhaust / condenser area will be non-existent"

No, radiant heat transfer depends on the temperatures of the two surfaces (goes as the difference of absolute temperatures to the 4th power), their surface colors and textures (absorptance and emissivity), how much they can "see" of each other and any material in the way (dust, smoke, water vapor, etc). The convective free air stream environment will not stop radiant heat transfer but it may cool the exhaust sytem to a lower temperatures (so it doesn't radiate as much heat) and carry away the heat transferred along with the heat being removed from the refrigerant by the condenser. It may be useful to build a "radiation shield" to "hide" the the exhaust system from the condenser. Cheers, Jim

[brcorp]

I didn't plan on this becoming a dissertation. The intent of, "in a free air stream environment radiant heat transfer in the exhaust / condenser area will be non-existent" is stated in your response, my comment is over simplified.

Originally posted by Jim Sims
The convective free air stream environment will not stop radiant heat transfer but it may cool the exhaust sytem to a lower temperatures (so it doesn't radiate as much heat) and carry away the heat transferred along with the heat being removed from the refrigerant by the condenser.

The only way to really answer this is to gather some temperature data, dimensions and fill in a few variables and do a quick heat transfer analysis.

Don't get wrong, I totally agree with your response. I just don't believe the environment will be that severe.

BTW, the heat shield is in the works.

Thanks for the input

[brcorp]

BTW, the total weight is 5.25 lbs

[Mysterytrain]

Bill,
I love what you are doing and the info you are providing. Something I have read that I thought I should share..."condenser tubes should be mounted in a horizontal orientation. Mounting the tubes vertically ( as you have) will cause the lower elbows to collect refrigerant oil and create exessive head pressure." I think you need to rotate that baby 90 degrees. Ron
www.mysterytrain.org

[brcorp]

ScottB,

Any comment here? Your front fender is mounted in the same fashion. I know this may not be the most optimum mounting position but it is a compromise on fit and function.

Originally posted by Mysterytrain
..."condenser tubes should be mounted in a horizontal orientation. Mounting the tubes vertically ( as you have) will cause the lower elbows to collect refrigerant oil and create exessive head pressure." I think you need to rotate that baby 90 degrees. [/url]

[scottb]

I haven't heard about the vertical vs. horizontal issue. Mine's mounted vertically. It wouldn't fit horizontally, but I can't imagine that Ice AC would put a product out there that would ultimately be problematical. Hopefully Jim Sims will weigh in on this...

It's an interesting issue.

Scott

[Jim Sims]

Looks sideways to me but maybe it works because it's the second unit (after the one on the deck lid) as most of the oil seems to end up in the first condenser. Best if tubes are horizontal and inlet is at the top. Jim

[Mysterytrain]

As long as we are talking condensers has anyone been able to come up with a workable AC system without the deck lid condenser? My 78 looks to be a dealer install with no front condenser. I would like to upgrade the system to rear fender/front fender and remove the decklid unit. How well does the C2 arrangement work?
Thanks, Ron

here is where I read the info on condenser mounting..interesting site:
http://hotrodair.com/pg18a.cfm

[brcorp]

And the saga continues....

Regarding condenser tube orientation, the A/C community seemed to be split on the issue. I rotated the condenser placing the tubes horizontal, just to keep everyone happy. Hoses are all measured out, at least up to the dryer. This is where I ran out of time. So tune in next week and when I'll plumb in the condenser, replace the old hoses with new barrier hoses and hopefully charge the system.

[cmonref]

When you get to providing power to the fan, consider that the Griffiths condenser fan gets power from the fuse box at the left rear of the engine compartment -- which is on the other side of the panel above your condenser. The fuse panel is held in with 2-3 6mm cap screws. Remove them, push the panel away slightly, and drill a hole into the left fender well. Insert a tube of plastic thru the hole, holding it in place with silicon sealant. Run wires thru the tube, sealing with silicon. Wires in the fender well can be a quick disconnect. In the fuse panel side, connect however you decide (probably putting a relay onto the panel and getting power from one of the fuses on the panel ans switching from the compressor switch line.

[brcorp]

Brian,

Thanks for the input. I was just looking at Excellence Mag October 2003 pg 145. Relay is already mounted and trigged from compressor clutch.

[Mysterytrain]

Bill,
Thats looking very sweet! Seems to me that there is enough room to stack a pair of condensers in there. Also, for what is worth I did a search here and found some exploded drawings of the C2 front condenser and guess what?...the tubes are mounted vertical!
Peace, Ron

[brcorp]

Ron,

The view is misleading as only one condenser will fit.

Please post the C2 condesner views.

[Mysterytrain]

Bill,
Here is the thread with the picture. Look at the last drawing. I sure would like to see some pix from folks that have installed this condenser in an SC. Oh, check out the wacky guy that started this thread?
Peace, Ron
Front Fender A/C Condenser

[plain fan]

Have any of you actually seen a 964/993 condensor? The part is massive, think the thickness of your evaporator but much larger. Also I need to point out the distance (depending on modifications done to your car) that cooled air needs to travel to a vent. Some must travel from the smuggler's box through the fresh air fan box then to the vents.

I would recommend to anyone adding a 3rd condensor to a factory or dealer installed a/c system, with the front condensor, add the 3rd condensor in series from the drier bottle to the front condensor. The lines already run this way so why not make it easier on yourself? But this must be prefaced with the fact that the SC windshield washer bottle must be removed as it takes up most of the space in the driver wheel well ahead of the tire. If you want to retain windshield washing capability I recommend a 1966 sized washer bottle. It is much smaller compared to the SC bottle but we've got to have priorities right?

[scottb]

Bill:

Can you post some pictures of how you're running the hoses from the engine compartment into the wheel well?

Thanks!

Scott

[brcorp]

I'll be running hoses this weekend so an update will follow.