I, too, have seen the light. (Do I need this particular 911?)

[epbrown]

I'll counter Jack - I've got the collector bug and if people keep hacking up the early cars, soon there'll be no way for the average guy to get one and relive the original early car experience. I don't mind mods, but I prefer them period-correct performance mods - I'd make a better vintage/historic racer than I would track rat.

Ideally, I'd suggest getting a '74 coupe, back-date the exterior, drop in a 3.0 or 3.2 and head to the track happy as you want to be. If that's not an option, I'd go for getting a 911T and modding it as you like.

For the record, I'm against altering any of the SWB cars - these icons of Porsche history, the cars that started the legend, seem to be butchered into turbo-looks and 993 replicas more than any other longhoods; bugs the hell out of me.

Just my two cents,

Emanuel

[bob tilton]

wow - both jack and emanual are very persuasive from their opposite view points. read both replies twice and then re-read your posts to better understand your perspective and this is your statement that sticks with me:

"You know what guys? I'm 59 years old. I'm not gonna do this too many more times. The future 356 stands to be my last harrah. I might do a concours weenie thing there if I'm capable. Whatever, it will represent everthing I've learned over the 40 years I've worked on cars."

sounds like your car is already built in your head. you have the base. man...i am gonna say build it. the collectors will be happy their car will go up in value. you will be happy that you have the car you want. save the concours energy for the 356. keep us posted over the next 40 years on your projects.

[nostatic]

Everything you've done so far is reversible, right? (mods I mean). If you find the right buyer you might get mid-high teens out of it. Maybe more...who knows in this market. It is numbers matching with some cool perks, but it is primer, so...

I think it comes down to the engine. If you want a 2.2MFI sitting behind you, then keep this car and finish it off. Skip the flares, dial it in for the wheels you want (for track, keep the deep 6s as a second set) and drive the snot out of it. That way you haven't done any cutting mods, and you are still number matching, etc.

BUT, if you don't want a 2.2MFI, then you should sell it and find something else. Becuase if you pull the engine to swap something bigger, you no longer have a numbers matching car.

[Soterik]

Milt,

Can you keep this car....and keep working on it...AND buy into a
another project?

Hate to see you sell the "one you know", particularly since you are a lot closer to finishing the S than you have been.

I've been lucky enough to have several cars at one time, and I like that situation.

The other option, would be to do everything you can do (and undo) to the S, including bigger engine (pickle your current one), go to R wheels (or widened 6's), etc. As noted....you are a fair way along already.....

Regards,
Eric

[DanTheCat]

Well, I can't give any numbers, but I don't think you should cut this one up. It sounds like you have brought it to a point where it would make someone looking for a nice original daily-driver type car very happy. And who knows, 10 or 15 years down the road it probably will be worthy of a concours-level restoration. Like was mentioned already, they aren't exactly making more '71 S coupes these days.

How much is left to be done before you could sell it in 'drive-me-home' condition? I think it should fetch a pretty decent price considering all the goodies you've got on it. Should be more than enough to get something more to your liking, most probably with some of the good bits already on there.

And part of me is a little sad at the thought of another nice original well maintained early car going under the knife.

Just my opinion though...

Dan

[jyl]

If you have to finish the S in order to get a decent price, then find an affordable T, then strip and re-do the T to the same standard you're doing the S to, plus do all the motor and body and suspension mods, how long will it take? You're already so busy that it's hard to get time for the S, you say. So will it be 2 years? 3 years? more? before you have your T toy done?

Life is finite, and we don't know how much until later. We've all heard of, or known, people who got tossed a curve ball when they didn't expect it.

I say you put yourself first. Take that S that you've sweated over, make it what you want, and go enjoy it rather than spend the next X years in the garage.

It's a 911S, not a commonplace car but not a rare, unique historical treasure either. (Now, if you were going to cut up an original RS, that would be a different story.) Anyway, you can keep all the original bits (motor, bodywork, etc) and if S'es become like hen's teeth someday, a good restorer can turn it back. I mean, its already had lots of work done, it's not an untouched, original paint, time capsule sort of car.

Just my two cents.

[nostatic]

now there's an idea. Buy an RS and put some narrow fender flares on it.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by nostatic
now there's an idea. Buy an RS and put some narrow fender flares on it.

I had to come back for that. Funny as hell.

Seems like everything hinges on one thing, flares. If I don't do the flares, then all's fair, I guess, because it's reversable. Like he says, "....., you can keep all the original bits (motor, bodywork, etc) and if S'es become like hen's teeth someday, a good restorer can turn it back. I mean, its already had lots of work done, it's not an untouched, original paint, time capsule sort of car."

On this: "How much is left to be done before you could sell it in 'drive-me-home' condition? I think it should fetch a pretty decent price considering all the goodies you've got on it. Should be more than enough to get something more to your liking, most probably with some of the good bits already on there." Let's go back. The goodies are not on there yet. It is a drivable, reliable car. Brakes are stock and fresh. Everything works. It's about to come apart in the areas that haven't been massaged, namely the undercar parts. When I put the new parts on, it won't be a '71 S under there anymore. And that leads to more mods, we all know that. Othere than brakes, I have concentrated on body and structural work since aquiring the car.

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll conclude this thread in a day or so with the "final answer."

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Zeke
Thanks everyone for the input. I'll conclude this thread in a day or so with the "final answer."

as long as it isn't the "final solution"

[KobaltBlau]

Here's a tiny observation:

You said: you want to "stay with 15s"
You said: DOT 'R' tires

this means 225 rears unless you want to drive hoosiers all the time.

225s + custom offset 15s + narrow body = no problem.

However the roll bar etc everything you want to do isn't going to make it easy to revert back to perfecto-stock. Will you be dead before you care? This may have nothing to do with your age, if you build the car you want, don't feel guilty about whether you cut up x or y. porsche re-used race cars with important records and converted them into different configurations or models. These were far more unique than an 'S'. If your 'S' was finished and saleable for a high price, I would say go for it and start fresh with a 'T'. However, it may not bring a high price unfinished and I'm not sure if you will want to finish a car for someone else.

[masraum]

I would make it into what you want it to be. It's not perfect, never going to be a concours car. Is Jack's car worth less now that he's modified it? I wouldn't say so.

Do with the thing what makes you happy, you've already invested your time and money into this car, so finish what you've started.

[901/05]

Milt, keep your 911S project. I think it looks pretty cool as it is...that's me tho.

Find a nice low miles 911T. Then, throw just enough cash at it to make a reliable daily driver, then...this is the hard part, drive it daily! This is what I do.

The S will be there when you feel the need to work on something. I have an empty engine stand with ideas hanging all over it. I am driving my 911T to Northern California all next week, then to Ventura in Sept, then to the East Coast later the same month. The "hot engine" ideas are at home waiting for me as I drive around and enjoy the lowely, nonflared, 911T!

Hope that helps. Shawn.

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by masraum
Is Jack's car worth less now that he's modified it? I wouldn't say so.

To extend that:

Is it worth what he has in it? No.
Is he happy? Yes.

this is the way these things go...

[Jack Olsen]

For the record, one minor observation:

Flares are reversible, too.

It takes about as much paint and bodywork to remove them as it does to add them. I guess there'd be some scar from the welding under there, but that really would only matter if it were a Concours queen, and since the original paint is already gone, it's safe to say that that's not (thankfully) its destiny.

[CRH911S]

I agree with Masraun. Listen to the little voice in your head.

[Milu]

Your car is a known quantity and you've already put a lot of work into it. Starting on a new car will only add cost and take longer to get on the road. You have you dream car sorted in your head - go for it!

[chuckw951]

Originally posted by Milu
Starting on a new car will only add cost and take longer to get on the road.

You're probably right about the timeline, but I'm not sure if starting with a new car would add to the cost. You could start with a 911T roller for like $3K or $4K right? The other parts (motor, trans, suspension, brakes, interior) would cost the same regardless of which car you bolt them on, right? But time is a concern...took me close to two year to get my swap done between the rebuild and sorting everything out.

[Shuie]

Originally posted by JackOlsen

Flares are reversible, too.

Thats what Im screamin'

When you can swing a hammer and dolly the way Milt can, flares are definitely reversible.

[Bill Verburg]

Way back when I cut up my fairly new '72 S to put the flares on. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

[}{arlequin]

You mean you're going to ruin that perfectly good paint job??? I love the look of the car now.

As others have mentioned, there is a way to fit 8's. Minilites for sure, but custom built Fuchs, too.

Save the flares for the end, the very end. You can go pretty crazy w/ the engine and suspension etc. until then. It's an S. So what? It's your S, and you know it inside out. There will be NO surprises for you anywhere on this car. That is a very good thing. Why start over?

And if some will turn pale and faint at the sight of your (gasp) modified/'ruined' S, you can turn to them and in a Tony Montana accent claim: "I don't care, an S to me is the same as a T. Just a fooking machine man."