toluene as an additive/ cleaner (tech stuff)

[ricochet]

Hey guys,
a little more than 20 years ago, I was an operator on a platformer (cracker) unit making reformate (gasoline, high octane, for blending). I didn't really know what I was making, I did know how to operate the unit and take my numbers. I did talk with the knocker (lab blender) and he told me of high aromatics (benzene, toluene) made the octane clean and higher than just pump gas. I also worked a detol unit which charged toluene and hydrogen gas at high temps and high pressures (850'@1200+psi) this unit converted tol to benzene at a profittable rate.
So much for that. I know that toluene added to gasoline at the correct rate boosts octane (can go to 120 ROM or so) and also is a solvent. Now, I know folks use techroline for cleaning injectors, what is techroline? Is is toluene, or benzene, or what? How much toluene is enough? How much is TOO much? I remember a co-worker burnt his engine by running too hot (mixed too much, too high temps), I also remember the knocker saying Euro gas is 6% aromatics, US gas is 3%, saying we can improve easily and improve octane easily (I then got laid off).
Can anyone give formulas and maybe correct my 20+ year old info. Toluene is available, and I need to clean injectors on my Ford (after 60k of cheap gas). Does anyone have info on good/bad points of using toluene as an additive. The big gas companies know what they are doing and ONLY want to maximize profits, they do not care to offer anything but ways to get your money. They are doing this as well as they can.
What the heck is techroline?

[randywebb]

techroline - no idea

Touluene is one of the worst liver-destroying toxins out there tho. I'd never use it as a cleaner. If my neighbor did, I'd shoot him in self-defense.

[ricochet]

I too understand it's potentials, yet I was exposed to it daily in volumes you'd never accept. I am still alive. As are my co-workers. Do you understand Hydroflouric acid? I feared that stuff, toluene was tame. You hate it? You better accept it as stuff working for your needs dealt with everyday. I thought toluene was tame compared to what I see now.

And, do you fuel your own vehicle, ya better shoot yourself. You breath aromatics (as in Toluene) at every fueling. Get the gun ready, your liver is exposed.

[AFJuvat]

I've heard (though cannot confirm) that 1 gallon of toluene\tank of fuel will boost your RON+MON/2 number to the 99-100 range.

Around here, toluene is around $10\gallon.

Analine (annaline?) is supposed to be another good octane booster.

AFJuvat

[Rufblackbird]

there's a bunch of guys down here using tolene as a octane booster for their turbocharged vw's. Friend with a turbo beetle said it made a drastic difference, but forgot what the receipe was.

[Determined]

I work with Toluene daily and I don't like it, my advice for cleaning your fuel injectors on your old Ford is simple...slick 50, Duralube, or equivalant, etc. These off the shelf cleaners after a couple consecutive uses will do miracles, besides its easier and safer. Good luck and be safe!

Best Regards, Alex

[Rufblackbird]

as far as cleaning fuel systems go Chevron Techron is recommended by many on this board.

[RoninLB]

afaik sammyg2 & A Quiet Boom know all about toluene.

[ricochet]

I believe Chevron uses the "techroline" nomeclature also. I use other fuel cleaners as needed, but ya gotta realize, they feed on us (and our fears of toluene) and other names they change to make us "happy". They care no more about you than do the Iraqi terrorists, the oil giants only want OUR money, and they want us to BUY what they offer.
C'mon guys, we can do better. We need info, we don't need their mis-info. I don't wear a aluminum cap, I accept they stear us and don't want us to go past their offerings. C'mon guys, they try to keep us under their offerings. Look outside the big guys, we can do better. They want us to accept what they offer, do you accept that as the best we can do??????
C'mon, they are not your friend! We can be friends here. They offer what profits them, to them we are prey. Let's get answers, lets ask till we we find what works. Do you think they pay $4 for a pint? Nah! They screw us, we must have folks here (or there) that can offer info. Do they use toluene? C'mon guys. Ask and seek. We gotta get info. They get us on gas everyday, can't we get an answer on injection cleaners that work? Ask....

[Zeke]

ric, is this some kind of rant or what are you up to? If you want to know about tolulene, use the search feature and read all night long. This has been discussed ad infinitum here.

I raced karts for years and have seen all kinds of additives. You see this stuff at the circle tracks, too, in the gas classes. Sure, tolulene will raise octane a bit. It also makes the motor run hotter. What do you REALLY need? Is your car pinging? Adjust it.

You say 60,000 mi. of bad gas. Bad gas is bad gas, period. We don't buy Arco for 911's. Tolulene is not the way to fix it.

What too see some fun stuff? Add 5% propylene oxide and another 5% dinitropropane. Now, adding gasoline soluble nitro with an exiter (both oxygenators) will get you some performance. Or you could just buy professionally mixed race gas.

Dirty injectors?..............

[tshih]

Toluene is a safer cousin to benzene (classified liver cancer producer and banned from use more than 10 years ago). It definitely boost octane and has an octane value of probably 110 by itself. It is a lot harder to burn completely in an engine and produces more soot, and CO readings will get higher. The downside of its use is hotter running engine because the CAT is working harder to scrub the gases and timing is retarded by the mixture's octane behavior. The other chemical mentioned aniline is even more toxic than benzene and turns to tar very quickly in the tank exposed to air.

Personally, I would use Techron to clean injectors and only add toluene in less than 5% volume to volume of regular gasoline (ie 1 gallon toluene to 19 gallons gas). My Honda Civic ran fine on that formulation. I wouldn't try that on a 911 engine since the risk of messing up the emissions system is much more costly to rectify.

[fireant911]

A safer approach could be to purchase some Berryman's B-12 Chemtool which contains Toluene - the exact percentage isn't listed on the container though I would imagine that it is rather high. Everyone who has used this will probably agree that it is a powerful and effective solvent. I gave my fuel system a heavier than recommended dosage to simply clean the injectors. I would not feel comfortable, albeit with no scientific basis, to dump large quantities into the fuel system to raise the octane - that I would simply buy the racing gas as it is already formulated for this exact purpose. I certainly would prefer to be cautious when performing this type of experimentation with my P car. However, I do think that a lawn mower motor could serve as an early 'sacrificial' engine to see if any changes are noted as well as any obivious damage from adding large quantities of Toluene before venturing off with experimenting on more expensive toys.

[jester911]

Toluene is a close cousin to Xylene(xylol). Also will boost octane and is some nasty stuff as well. It is what goof off is made from.

These petroleum distillates are really nasty. The fumes are toxic as well as the liquid itself. The amounts you have to use of this stuff to actually boost your octane is pretty high.

If you want to clean injectors and such you are better off using techron or the like.

Personally I think the risk involved fooling around with that stuff is not worth any payoff that you might get.

[ricochet]

Originally posted by Zeke
ric, is this some kind of rant or what are you up to? If you want to know about tolulene, use the search feature and read all night long. This has been discussed ad infinitum here.


Dirty injectors?..............

Hey Zeke, I'm really just curious, am not up to anything sinister. I have read a little, and maybe should have done more research. My F150 has just shown signs of needing the injectors cleaned. Low idle at cold start, nothing more, nothing less. I buy the cheapest fuel I find and abuse the crap out of her (I do not buy cheapest for my 911).
If I am beating a dead horse, I apologize. What my intent is/was is to learn. I know someone in this database has info that we all can learn from again and again. Heck, I bought MANY gallons of Howell racing fuel and a LOT of AVgas years back.
So no harm, no foul. I just want to confirm things, right or wrong and a lot of good info is here. I'm no rocket scientist (but friends are), I just want to understand techroline and other solvents a little better. I did work for a refiner, I now work in another chemical line (sulfuric acid) and I just asked what I thought was valid. Cheers

[randywebb]

"yet I was exposed to it daily in volumes you'd never accept. I am still alive."

- This conflates two very separate issues -- acute toxicity and chronic toxicity. Just because you don't drop dead immediately does NOT mean it is anywhere near safe. In general, exposure to small amounts over a long time period can kill you, give you some very bad degenerative disease, mess up yo' head (impaired mental function), cause cancer, sperm disruption, yada yada. Worse for women who may want to reproduce, often worse for kids, worse for women who are pregnant, etc. -- all of whom may be in your house while you are doing the work on the car in the garage...

BTW, very very few chemicals are ever studied much for chronic toxicity. The studies required under law (and those are only for 'new' chemicals), are generally for acute toxicity.

Then, there is the extra effect of exposure to multiple chemicals (2 + 2 > 4)....

BTW, gentlemen -- did you know that men today have only abot 1/4 the sperm count that our grandfathers did? Ever wonder why?

[ricochet]

and, I thought the percentage of aromatics such as toluene, benzine and friends were smaller than stated numbers. I was of the thought that 1 quart to 20 gallons raised the ROM numbers greater than the info offered. Again, this was just a quest for info, and info is on this site. Is eurogas 6% aromatics opposed to US gas @ 3%? And why? Thanks guys, I am just wanting to understand things a little better.

[ricochet]

gosh randyweb,
That is also interesting. I do know that my former employer has to keep my records for 30 years after my employment was terminated. Is nearing 21 years, if I live 9 more years they purge records and my widow would have a harder time getting money for them killing me and my liver.
I did everything possible to limit my exposure, but was exposed more than any of you could ever fear, I am maybe a ticking timebomb. But, what choice did I have (bankrupted my business, needed a job-paycheck)? Yep, I was down.
That aside, what is techroline? Beat this horse, but someone can offer info. I will use berrymans or chevron or ??? but what is their solvent? I may be asking too much, but am just curious.

[Mike Kast]

Amen Randy...

[RarlyL8]

Toluene benzene xylene etc are all in the same family and all found in gasoline (you know that). If you simply want to clean your injectors you can add a 5% blend of most any aromatic hydrocarbon and gasoline. You don't need an octane boost so this is a one time deal. The same ingredients are found in most any injection or fuel system cleaner. A search on this subject should pull up a website specifically dealing with toluene as a fuel additive.
Like yourself I spent many years bathing in aromatics while working in the chemical industry. Ya gatta do what ya gotta do. I gave up the career I loved before it killed me. As for my sperm count, it damned well better be zero.

[TerryH]

A few years back, I used toluene in my non-Porsche turbo car. I was advised by others not to exceed 20% or 5:1 gas/toluene. It worked well as I could easily get an additional 3-5 psi boost without knock.