I still thingk the Wevo SPS solution is the way to go, by far. The thing is flat built better than NASA would do, and the real needle bearings up fron will give precise location and movement to the trailing arm/springplate combo. I hesitate to say this, but it seems like a "good value" maybe too good.

Regarding the locking allen, I asked earlier if the Sway Aways had them and I thought at teh time that they did not. And it appears they don't. I also remember reading somewhere, can't remember where exactly, that these lock allens have cool nylon tips to prevent thread galling. Dane can you confirm this?

I think in this thread,http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/182875-wevo-lineup-availability-pricing.html Hayden said he had a couple preproduction units out but wasn't going to release it for awhile.

As I remember, the SAW adj. spring plate adjusters had some thread sealant to prevent rapid unthreading. This, coupled with approx. 700 lbs. of corner weight on the screw tip, should prevent it from rotating.

Sherwood

I'll get some more pics when I get a chance.

This from Rennsport's web site:

http://www.rennsportsystems.com/1-sg.html


Adjustable spring plates

http://www.rennsportsystems.com/1-sgb.jpg

"This item will make setting precise corner weights and ride height much easier to do. Having the correct corner weight, ride height and rake on a 911/930 is the other "secret" to a superior handling car. These spring plates come with urethane bushings at the pivots to help minimize unwanted toe-changes caused by the deflection in the stock rubber bushings that contribute to trailing-throttle oversteer. Installing this kit gives you total control of rear height and corner weight with a 1/4" Allen wrench. Elephant Racing's Poly-Bronze greasable bushings are strongly recommended over the urethane ones that are supplied with the Weltmeister spring plates."

Money is generally the issue and when I made a direct comparison of the parts the decision was easy. YMMV obviously.

"This item will make setting precise corner weights and ride height much easier to do. Having the correct corner weight, ride height and rake on a 911/930 is the other "secret" to a superior handling car."

No doubt. A lot easier for that setting - that won't change much in the future.

Or have a really talented friend set the corner balancing for you;)
Make them equal side-to-side in front, & have Omni set the alignment. Just had that done today. Those are very nice spring plates, however.
----------------------------------------------------
Uhm yeah.......11s may fit back there now Dane.
Ya think?:cool:


"You know how I hate sitting in the back seat Craig :) "
Hell.........move into the front seat now!

If you get a 3.6.......to that I say what Jack Olsen said, as well as the pic he posted:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1076918344.jpg

"That kind of torque would even scare a guy like me."
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/152897-brother-i-have-seen-light-3-6-varioram.html

WAY TO GO!
http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif

Update on the spring plates. Had a chance to drive the same set up on very similar cars one with and one without WEVO plates as a comparison. Everything else the same except the spring plates and bushings. One set up was all Elephant poly/bronze bushings, one set up all Elephant poly bronze with the addition of WEVO spring plate and bearings.

You could tell the difference literally in only a couple of blocks. The rear end is much more compliant. It is faster and easier to drive because of that rear end compliance. 1000 miles later and I am even more impressed.

Car is more comforatble to drive, easier to drive and much easier to drive quickly in any terrain.

Hayden tells me they now have a small production run in stock and available.

If you are running torsion bars and are serious about having the best set up available this is a worth while investment IMO. Do some price comparison for wht you get and the money is even better spent than you might first think. Long tern corner balancing is also much easier.

Never going to own a 911 again without Elephant's poly bronze and Wevo's spring plate set up. Still want to try the roller bearings up front if there was this much of a change in the rear. No bs.

Car has 22/30 Sander's hollow bars, 225/245 tires on 8/9 Fuchs, sport Bilsteins, and is lowered to 24.5 front and 24" in back. Sway bars are late Carreras and weights in at 2200# give or take half tank of gas.

I would really caution anyone who is thinking about changing bushings. Don't go nitrex or any of the cheap replacement hard nylon stuff. Bite the bullet money wise and do the Elephant poly bronze as you can. Wevo spring plates because you really must. Amazing set up when you put it all together.

Go drive a 993 and get an idea of what your old torsion bar car can feel like. My car now feels very much like our 2004 BMW 330ci with a factory sport suspension (and the BMW is using even lower profile SO3 tires than the SO3s the Pcar runs ).

All of that is a good thing!

I have some WEVO engine and trans mounts coming tomorrow, based on the raves from you guys. I fully expect this stuff to be as good as Chuck's stuff, which I find to be really first rate. Maybe this will get rid of the clunking noise I've developed (actually, the car noise, the other clunks are my knees and shoulders)

Pat

I am not sure of where the bearings which were spoken of here actually go. Are they bearings in or on the springplate instead of bushings or chuck's polybronze?

Take a look here, it's a good thread.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182875&perpage=10&highl ight=wevo&pagenumber=7

none of you guys have been on a submarine after spending 8 years doing that and seeing the guys in the shipyard weld SS, aluminum,titanium, and they almost all look that good or they dont pass QC.

I am no bearing expert nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn recently, but I do have concerns with the roller/needle bearings which are being produced for front A-arms and now spring plates. I do have a friend who is an expert on bearings. what I have learned from him is that bearings are designed for a full range of movement, rather than a limited range of movement. When a needle bearing has weight on it and does not have the range of movement, brunelling (sp) can occur, (or is it false brunelling). Which makes grooves in the race or bearing surfaces, leading to slop, broken needles and other problems. For example, My bearing friend and my other friend are Rolls Royce/ Bentley guys and found that a needle bearing in the steering mechanism had some brunelling due to the limited range of movement. They made their own bushings out of some hard bronze with very close tolerences. Upon inspection way down the road, there was no wear whatsoever. Of course, the RR/B guys went on and still go on about their solution as we often do. That is why Chuck's products are so good, just by looking from the outside. There is no rubber sticky stuff and close machining to keep out play.Although, the limited range of movement may cause uneven wear on his products, I would rather have wear on solid materials than on skinny needle bearings. Bearings IMHO, are not the way to go, but I am curious about how these bushings will survive in the long run. I am sure my friend will be more than happy to give his opinion and I will show him what I can of this thread. I don't want to start something here or bash any products, but I think it is worth pointing out.

Dane - Is your car complete yet? Seems like it's taken forever to build. Will you provide us with all its specs? It definitely sounds interesting.

Like you said, "you're no expert".

Neither am I. I do however drive. I have driven two cars set up virtually the same for suspension except for spring plate bushings..

I like Elephant's stuff to a point. I like Wevo's stuff to a point.

I know there is a huge difference in how the cars respond with a change simply in the spring plate bearings. Anyone else made a similar comparison I'd liek to hear their commnets.

I have read Chuck's response on the issue via his web site and his comments here. I have also seen Hayden's here. While no expert I do understand some of how the loads are transmitted in the 911 suspension. I am comfortable with the engineering and the needle bearing application in this instance for my own use. It is not new technology just another application on a 911.

Only thing I am interested in as the say, "how the rubber meets the road. There are any number of full "elephant" cars in the Seattle area. Anyone wants to make a direct comparison with my set up I am happy to oblige.

If a gumby like myself feels a distinct differenece in the suspension of a hard sprung 911 in a few blocks, I suspect someone who really is an expert can take advantage of that improvment even more easily than I have already.

David, car is done. Complete spec sheet is listed in the last build update when we finished it a couple of weeks ago.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221489&perpage=10&highl ight=finished&pagenumber=3

Been driving it since with a big grin on my face :) Leaving in the mornng for a 1500 mile trip and the Bogus Basin Hill climb.

Granted, several other Pelicans have pointed out the same concerns. I was talking with one of the most respected mechanics on this board who said that when one is to take any known group of bearing users and understand that of all of them, there have been no known failures with the collective amount of miles driven, then that proves the reliability of the product. Then there is another well-respected mechanic who subscribes to this board (well, more than one to be honest), who believes the OEM A-arm bushings will never need changing, and if they do, it is the result of an accident, and only then should the OEM A-arm - with the bushing - be the replacement. The same is said concerning the springplates and the rear pivot arms and their associated bushings.

When it comes down to it, it's a matter of who you believe, how you drive and the money involved. Either one is an enormous factor, I believe.

Dane,

ENJOY!!

Congrats, Dane. Knowing your attention to detail, I'm sure it's a beaut. What's up with the old 3.4?

3.4 is for sale unless it is still here when the roller I want arrives.

That was my first thought too. Anyone?

Well, w/o being an expert, all one needs to do is look at existing usages.
Take a look at the ubiquitous driveshaft needle bearings. Ya know, the ones pushing trucks. . . years of rock back and forth, rotating just a few degrees. Same thing for CV joints on our 911. (they rock the bearing element, while spinninng, not roll . . .so to speak)

Sure they wear over time, and sometimes faster than full rotation verions; but what really KILLs bearings are high loads and/or dirt.

Also, something of interest; bronze bushings perform best (last the longest) when continually spinning. The spinning creates a "hydrodynamic" condition (good --its riding on oil) Whereas the back&forth motion has to rely on so called boundry lube. (not optimal -- surface on surface)