My conversion thread (long and many questions) - Page 3

rdane · rdane's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by biosurfer1
no matter what, if i go with my 3.0, it will have to be rebuilt, 250,000 is too much without knowing if it ever has been rebuilt

This comes from a guy who was at one time in your shoes. I had a '79 SC with 190K miles on it.
Take my comment for what it is worth.

There are SCs out there with 400K miles on them. Unless your car is using more than a quart of oil every 600 miles or something else is wrong like it smokes like a chimney or leaves a quart on the garage floor I wouldn't even pull the engine.

I'd drive it.

Craig mentioned it before. Light means HP. Drop some weight, fix any leaks you have and add a set of SSIs with a good sport muffler. Then just drive it!

There was a reason the SC stands for Super Carrera.

randywebb · 05-09-2005, 09:24 PM

Just Chev' it...

biosurfer1 · 05-09-2005, 10:00 PM

dane, i'm an ME major at sac state so i usually go with the "if it aint broke... break it, then fix it" methodology, i love driving it, and will until i have amassed everything i will need, but not only do i want more power, i think it will be a fun learning experience, and i might as well do it now before the real world hits me

Rob Channell · 05:43 AM

Hmmm.....sounds like fun. You could just run the 3.0 until it breaks while saving up cash and then buy whatever you can afford to put into it. It might just last until you can afford a 3.6 and install kit.

An interesting Senior project for an ME might be to outfit the car's suspension with a high speed data acquisition system for the suspension motion and measure/design/improve the suspension for different conditions based on empirical data. If you do it, please post your thesis here.

On second thought, post anyway so we can hear what you decided and how it worked out. Good Luck.

BTW, I went from a 3.0 to a 3.2 Carrera. It was a nice upgrade for me. I have driven it for several years and have decided that I would like to have a 3.6. I am waiting for my checkbook to catch up with my decision, but still enjoying my current ride.

Mysterytrain · 05-10-2005, 07:03 AM

Hmmm, I can't imagine you dropping less then 12 to 15k into this project especially because you are in Cal. My 78 SC needed a rebuild last summer. Here on the east coast I was getting 10k estimates and advice to go with a used 3.2 or 3.6 which would have ballparked around the same. In the end I found a good shop and well trusted mechanic and went with the 3.2 short stroke, CIS, SSI's Dansk 2/1 setup. Because the damn SC engines go so long you are kind of faced with replacing alot of stuff that you wouldn't have to on a 70k motor..oil cooler, oil pump, timing chains, rocker arms valves, valve springs, etc..the parts add up fast. Then of course, there is all the 'while you are in there' stuff..axles, clutch, starter, alt., 25 year old brake lines. I topped out at 16k with my car and I still need to dump some cash into the suspension...but what I have is a very reliable, feisty new engine..lots a power ( for me) and a great street car with excellent paint and interior. I think you need to decide what you want to do with the car. Set a goal and work towards that. The 356 guys once told me..you can dump 25K into your car and have the sweetest 12K 356 around.

911teo · 05-10-2005, 07:20 AM

At the end of the day any time you decide to have work done on these cars it will be expensive.

And as it was said before there are other upgrades that should be done with an increase in power.

Suspensions to me are the most important upgrade you can do. And it ain't cheap. Monoballs, new shocks (on a 250k mile car they should be the 1st thing to go), new torsion bars, new sway bars... It all adds up.

But the benefit of a freshened up suspension is far greater than a 20-40hp increase in power.

IROC · IROC's Garage

As a data point, I swapped a 3.2 (with 20k miles on full rebuild) into my '76 a couple of years ago and the total cost including engine was around $7k.

Things like flywheels, ring gears, clutches, fuel pumps, motor mounts, CV joints, oil lines, blah blah blah nickel and dime you to death.

Mike

biosurfer1 · 05-10-2005, 07:47 AM

from the prices i have seen for different items, i find it hard to believe that i will be at 15k at the end of this. that is more than the complete kit with a 3.6 vario is at instant g's website with alot alot of options added on...but i'll keep looking around

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

FWIW, I had a friend rebuild my 3.0 with a lot of very nice upgrades for under $5k. I have 964 cams ($300), new SSI's ($850) and used B&B dual in/out ($350), all new valves, guides, etc. ($1300) and my car pulls like a champ. I got a super bang for the buck and am very happy with the engine.

No way in the world will you get any kind of 3.6 transplant for under $10k when it's all said and done (and it never is).

Marcesq stole a 20k miles '89 3.2 with harness for around $4400 and we DIY'ed the install, he sold his old 2.7 for $2k. I think the whole swap came in at around $3k out of pocket. If you are very patient and shop around, you can get a good deal. They're out there. But even if you find a perfect 3.6 for $6k, you have a lot of conversion stuff to buy and you will get nickeled and dimed to $10k easily.

Just buy a 993 and all your problems will be solved.

911teo · 05-10-2005, 08:25 AM

Bio

I have the full Instant-G set up, motor, kit, clutch, exhaust, chip, oil cooler etc.. U name it, I have it. If you want to discuss PM me.

BTW
Steve is a super guy... is he the cheapest? no... but the engine swap for me was the easiest of the upgrades that are being done to my car.

biosurfer1 · 05-10-2005, 10:01 AM

thanks 911teo, it looks more and more that the 3.6 will have to be put in the "once i get a real job" category, just too much money right now, so it looks more like i'll be going with the 3.0 build or 3.2. all this has been very helpful, now the search begins.

anthony · 05-10-2005, 10:56 AM

Start playing with EFI. Tbitz got a 40hp bump using a Megasquirt EFI and SSIs on his SC.

CIS to EFI kit

http://www.bitzracing.com/gallery/Tony_78_911SC.html

911mot · 911mot's Garage

Very interesting thread.
Even more so having found

this ebay gem (If you are from the UK do not click the link- your computer will crash and the harddrive will catch fire.)

So, what is needed to mate a 3.6 to a 915?

Are there any induction alternatives - eg 3.2 manifold with bigger injectors and an SW chip?

mmmmmm I'm getting tingly just thinking about it

Craig 930 RS · 05-10-2005, 11:21 AM

Run!

rdane · rdane's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by anthony
Start playing with EFI. Tbitz got a 40hp bump using a Megasquirt EFI and SSIs on his SC.

40 hp is a joke. More like the 15 you get from the SSIs and a better throttle response than CIS. Typical 3.0 CIS runs 180+/-at the wheels with SSIs.

Craig 930 RS · 05-10-2005, 11:30 AM

Dane beat me to it.....

An unnamed builder claims 40 hp gain in a 993 3.6 with STOCK 'headers' (HES); ie individual banks into individual mufflers. Another JOKE.

911teo · 05-10-2005, 11:36 AM

911mot

check this link

http://instant-g.com/Products/36Conversion/CrateMotor.html

On another note... what would your isurance say if u did swap the 3.2 with a 3.6?

geof33 · 05-10-2005, 12:40 PM

If you are rebuilding the 3.0 anyway, just put in a Moritz big bore kit and take it up to 3.2 with 98mm nikasils... Your looking at around an 8-10k rebuild. My "track" motor is right in the vicinity of 7500.00 for parts. This includes a gt2 oil pump (1000.00) full SSI oil lines bla bla bla... This way, you get a new motor and less hassle. The up side is you can EFI it at a later date as $$ is available. A full 3.6 vario swap WILL be around 15K when it is all said and done. I looked at ALL the options for my track car and overall the best bang for the least $$ was the 3.2 rebuild.

With regard to the tranny stuff etc... the 915 tranny would be fine for the 3.6...

k9handler · 05-10-2005, 01:22 PM

This is a very good thread, but some points I must make:

#1 - Jack has not posted in this thread and were on page 2
#2 - Kevin is correct that brakes and suspension can wait...my car is a daily driver on standard 911S brakes and the only suspension upgrade was the Bilstein HD's on the back. Sure suspension and brake upgrades will be a nice upgrade, but they can happen when the funds/time is right.
#3 - Did I say that Jack as not posted here? He can tell you first hand how nice and reliable a 3.6 can be! Reliable being the key word here...they are worth it

Kevin Stewart · 05-10-2005, 02:02 PM

Its back to price, I feel if you go with a reputable american salvage yard you will get the best for you buck, every body says 15k, i beleive it can be done for under 10k if you do the work (no special tools or knowledge you can find many details here, and Timmins will help you)and you do the shopping, one of the biggest expenses is the oil coolers, If I lived in California land of abundance P cars and junk yards, i would be snooping the junk yards and swaps looking for parts, Here in indiana they still call it a porschee, and beleive me no parts, by the way did we talk reliable yet, Kevin