My conversion thread (long and many questions)

biosurfer1 · 05-08-2005, 02:28 PM

I have owned my 911sc for more than 6 months. I have only recently gotten the joy of driving it full time and i must say that there is a definite difference between driving a porsche with the top off and any other car i have driven. my car was in bad shape when i bought it, but it was the best i could afford at the time. i have put alot of time and money into the car thus far and it seems that there is always something else wrong, or needs to be fixed, or requires more money. The car is almost 27 years old, has more than 250,000 miles on what i assume is the original engine. this tells me that the 3.0 has proven its legend as a reliable engine. i knew that i would have to put money into the car when i bought it, and it actually took quite a bit less than i thought thus far. i had planned on selling the car and trying to make a buck or two, but i dont think that will happen at this point. so i have decided to do the next logical thing, put a lot more money into it. here is the plan i came up with:

i will be moving in about a month into a house that my friend owns, and he is well into porsches and also has the tools/space i will need to work on the car. i'm a mechanical engineering student so i do have skills necessary to work on the car plus i'm a fast learner, not to mention all i have learned from this board. i feel that with all of this plus all of the help on this board, i would like to do a conversion to my 911. i'm going to be slowly gathering parts over the summer, and will hopefully start by next school year, trying to fit this conversion into my senior project somehow. i need to start researching conversions, but it seems like there are plenty of data/articles/threads around that i should gain all the knowledge i'll need. here is a list of questions i have to start with, please answer any that you can, there will be many more to come.

1. (most important) money being somewhat of a factor, but performance being an important factor too, which engine would best suit a conversion? I am trying to decide between a 3.2 or a 3.6. what are the advantages to each? disadvantages? is the cost increase to a 3.6 worth it in performance?
2. is there any difference in what would have to be fabricated between the two?
3.i have been to instant g's website and looked through it, what are the thoughts on their work?
4.does anyone have a link to a thread that documents either of the conversions?
5.rough estimates of costs involved for each?
6.where would be the best place to start sourcing an engine?
7.any certain years I should stay away from?
8. I like my 915 transmission, any problems mating it to either engine?
9.should I use the CIS from my current setup or something else?

This should get me started, I’m sure there will be many more questions to come. Any other hints, tricks, tip, advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading and for all the help!

Jim Garfield · 05-08-2005, 02:50 PM

Well, I think that the 3.6 is quite a bit more work and $ to install plus the initial cost of the engine is going to be substantially more than the 3.2. That said, if you can swing it, the 3.6 is going to have more grunt.

Steve Timmons has done a lot of the 3.6 conversions and would have a good idea of costs involved. I think that he's in Maryland.

The 3.2 is a pretty straight forward swap.

biosurfer1 · 05-08-2005, 02:57 PM

thanks for the quick response jim. the more i read, it looks like its going to be a 3.2 for all the reasons you listed and more. while it would nice to go with the 3.6, i doubt the performance gain would satisfy the money spent.

drums · 05-08-2005, 05:14 PM

I was going to rebuild my '89 3.2 and bump it up to 3.4 with lots of goodies to make it faster. I was not pleased with the lack of punch in the 3.2 motor. There is a reason that so many of us are going to the 3.6 engines. That reason is PERFORMANCE. A 3.2 is NO MATCH to a 3.6.
The money spent is not that much greater for a 3.6 [that is, rebuilding a 3.2 to a 3.4 or 3.5].
If you can find a VarioRam 3.6, you are even that much more ahead in the performance game.
Check with 'Instant-G'. Study this; I think you will find that you will eventually want a 3.6 after you have a 3.2 in your car for awhile.
My $.02
Drums

Kevin Stewart · 05-08-2005, 05:43 PM

HMMMM i doubt the performance gain would satisfy the money spent.

I think you will regret you said that, find someone and go for a ride in a 3.6 conversion, Kevin

biosurfer1 · 05-08-2005, 06:04 PM

well looking at the price differences, it would seem that the 3.6 is roughly $2000-3000 more, depending on options, so the general feeling is that taking that extra money and putting it into a 3.2 would still not equal the performace of a 3.6? and the next question would be, is there anyone in the sacramento area with a 3.6 who would like to take me for a ride? a 6 pack would be in order for such a generous favor(after the ride of course

)

drsimonwong · 05-08-2005, 06:43 PM

Just wondering if you have considered the other necessary modifications that will come to bear if you take the power up 50-85 hp? The your gearbox needs to be in top condition and in all likelyhood your suspension will need upgrading as will the brakes.

Power without handling is a wild horse indeed.

Simon

biosurfer1 · 05-08-2005, 07:05 PM

ya, the suspension will have to be upgraded no matter what, it needs it anyways, as far as the 915, i'll have it checked out once its out of the car, but it seems to be in great shape, i love the way it shifts.

Kevin Stewart · 07:22 PM

here we go again the stock sc cant handle the 3.6 because of brakes and tranny junk, BS, my brakes work great and my car handles great, i will end up doing some changes so i can track it, but it is a street car first, Kevin

randywebb · 05-08-2005, 07:20 PM

The Timmons kit pretty much changed the map for putting in a 3.6, but I think it will still cost more. Are you putting in stock engines, or will you modify whatever you put in?

There is essentially no way to get as much torque from the smaller engine. But it can put out as much or more hp if modified, than a stock 3.6.

anthony · 05-08-2005, 07:35 PM

From what I've read on this board it sounds like 3.6L conversions are coming in at $12K+. My guess is that a 3.2 would be a much easier install and quite a bit cheaper.

Kevin Stewart · 05-08-2005, 07:44 PM

the only extra work will be the oil coolers, the motors bolt up the same, you have to change harnesses on both, etc etc etc o yea probably have to work with the exhaust,

you might try a new 3.2 top end with rings and bearings and maybe a 3.2 fuel injection on your 3.0, the sc injection is junk unless its all new, Kevin

biosurfer1 · 05-08-2005, 10:05 PM

i dont really want to use my current engine, its old and weathered, when i do this, i want to make sure its done right, and want a bigger engine (who doesnt) this is all great advice, alot of things i hadnt thought about, exactly what i need, keep it coming guys, i really appreciate it.

drums · 05-09-2005, 07:44 AM

I live in the Modesto area and my 3.6 will/should be done in about 2 weeks. When done, I have to take the rental car back to Sacramento airport and could give you a spin in the finished product [no beer needed].
Send a personal e-mail and we can arrainge it.
Drums

911teo · 12:25 PM

3.2 engines are difficult to come by. A fresh rebuilt or a low mileage one will go for 6.5-7k

A 3.6 engine in good condition can set you back 9-10k.

With a 3.6 you need an additional oil cooler (1k), new bumpers (need the opening), new exhaust (1-3k), sheet metal (0.5k) and the kit.

I have just done it. It is expensive!

The performance difference between a 3.2 and 3.6 Vario 911 is BIG.

RoninLB · 05-09-2005, 12:48 PM

if you're a good used parts shopper you can do a simple rebuild relatively cheap. Worry about big power later imo.

biosurfer1 · 05-09-2005, 01:45 PM

911teo, i'm not looking at a vario 3.6, those are way out of my price range, a late model 3.2 or early 3.6 would be my options. rebuilding my 3.0 is an option too, however if i'm going to put money into the car, i'd want more performance, and i dont think the rebuilt 3.0 would do it.

Drums...i'll email you, thanks for the offer.

911teo · 05-09-2005, 02:33 PM

bio

u'd be surprised at what u can get from a 3.0. Do a search... Rdane went from a 3.0 to 3.4. His car puts down 240rwhp...
It was one of last year's best threads!
Good luck with your choice... But be aware that between an early 3.6 (964) and a Varioram the difference is only the initial cost (2-3k)... all the rest still apply.

PS
I bought everything from Steve Timmins at Instant-G. Top guy!!!

Jamie79SC · 05-09-2005, 03:36 PM

Bio,

See if you can get that broken shift key fixed

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

You get what you pay for, the diferences between the 3.2 or 964 or 993 t/p aren't really that great.

the 3.6s will require a better oil cooler, but other than that the basics are the same

If money is that much of an issue I would fix what I had and enjoy it for what it is

Trying to keep up w/ the Jonses is not for the light of wallet