Reconstructing Constant Velocity (CV) Joints

[ClickClickBoom]

Hey,
Bolt length is only determined by the final assembly thickness. Since Pelican is selling parts that are not always Porsche OEM, the aftermarket parts may vary in dimension. While my 100MM joints had dust boots that were very close to the removed ones, without knowing what the factory design parameters were, determining the bolt length became the game of the hour. After building my 100MM Lobros with Pelican supplied boots, I added 8MM Nord-Locks to the mix, I determined after assembling the collection, that I needed 55MMx8mm, 12.9 bolts to complete the mix. Because aftermarket parts sometimes do not always match Mfg specs for a particular application, cautious attention to assembly detailis is necessary.
Remember, the elimination of the Schnoor washers and moon plates was a bean counter idea, against the engineering depts wishes. We can right that foolish choice with the judicious application of "attention to details"
BTW my right side assembly of CVs and Nord-Locks is as tight as the first assembly after 1000 miles, I will go on record and whole heartedly, endorse the inclusion of the Nord-Locks into the process.
Eric

[Nickshu]

Eric,

Is this the summary of what you installed?

M8x55mm bolts 12.9 black chromate
Moon plates from VW supplier, 3 per joint
M8 Nord-lock washers on each bolt (on top of the moon plates)

Right?? Trying to replicate here. I orderd most of the above yesterday, just did Schnorr washers instead of Nord-locks.

[JJ 911SC]

For the last 2 years I was running:

Transmission Side

M8x57.75mm bolts 12.9 black chromate

M8 Nord-locks washers on each bolt (They are made of 2 pieces and are 2.5mm thick)

No Moon plate.

As Eric said, they were perfect at the 1000 KM check and it took quite a bit to "break" them out a few weeks ago.

The new axles have the exact same flange thickness so I'll run the same setup.

There was 3-5 threads showing on the inside of the transmission and plenty off clearance.

On the wheel side

The bolts were the same overall length (57.75mm) but without any washer. On the passenger side 2 of them were loose and one of those I unscrewed by hand...

I'll be adding Nord-locks washers to that side as well.

[gtc]

Nick, there have been a few different CV boot flange designs in the last few years. Some were thinner and weaker than the original flange. Some were made from two layers of metal rather than the original, thick solid flange. These variations are part of what caused the uncertainty now about what length bolt and what (if any) type of washer is required.
I like to get my CVs and boots ready, then buy bolts locally at fastenal or the like. Also, Nordlocks can be reused, unlike schnoor washers.

[ClickClickBoom]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

Eric,

Is this the summary of what you installed?

M8x55mm bolts 12.9 black chromate
Moon plates from VW supplier, 3 per joint
M8 Nord-lock washers on each bolt (on top of the moon plates)

Right?? Trying to replicate here. I orderd most of the above yesterday, just did Schnorr washers instead of Nord-locks.

No moon plates, I needed the car and couldn't wait. The boot flange took the deformation. I think the Schnorrs will be fine, one use only though. I think the critical point is as Grady and others have said, cleanliness is paramount on the mating surface of flange/CV. Otherwise, any good locking system will do the trick. I do think that when Nord-Lock ramps up the production of the NLX8 washer I will switch to them, until then NL8s will do.
The key is to take your time and fit the correct bolt length for whatever washer/plate system you decide to use.
Eric

[Guardsred911]

I posted this on another thread, but thought it should go here too... Reading all the posts about ensuring the CV's were surgincally clean made me a little paranoid.... I did have some time, and figured I could either just install the newly-arrived M8 Schnoor's and M8X55 allen bolts, or, I could take the 20 minutes to remove them, double check EVERYTHING was CLEAN and reinstall. I did find that my initial install was perfectly clean, but I did end up getting a little CV grease on the face of the tranny flange. I recleaned both faces with brake cleaner and ensured the holes were perfectly clean. I had used the brake cleaner and QTip method last week, and it was nice to be able to confirm that it had, in fac, worked perfectly. The threads were CLEAN.

I was also able to bolt it back up with the new bolts without getting anything on them, so I didn't need to redo the cleaning process of backing out a bolt at a time, hosing out with brake cleaner, etc....

I remember someone was asking about how much an M8X55 extends through. I took a couple picts of the bolts threaded in, only finger tight. Remember, these aren't torqued and don't have the Half Moon Plates yet as they haven't arrived in the mail.

You can see it's a couple threads, and when I get it torqued up with the Moonies on it, I will post that too...

[Guardsred911]

One question I did have was regarding the experience the people were having with the $31 boot with Flange from our host manufactured by GKN/Loebro versus the $12 EMPI model. I got the $12... anyone had experiences using both... good bad, or otherwise?

[Nickshu]

Thanks for posting the pic. I have M8x55's in the garage but am not sure if they are too long. The one's I ordered from BelMetric are 55mm long from the bottom of the hex head, not the entire bolt length. I will try them today to see.

Still waiting on Moon plates but wondering if they are overkill. I have M8 Schnorr's on hand. Not sure if I'm just impatient or I really don't need them. The VW supplier I ordered moon plates from has been slow to ship them out.

[Guardsred911]

Nick, looks like we have the same deals... I have the M55's from Belmetric too... those are the ones you see installed.. certainly not portruding too far... I could have done M60's and been fine. I am also waiting for a slow shipment of Moonies from the VW supplier...

[Nickshu]

Originally Posted by Guardsred911

Nick, looks like we have the same deals... I have the M55's from Belmetric too... those are the ones you see installed.. certainly not portruding too far... I could have done M60's and been fine. I am also waiting for a slow shipment of Moonies from the VW supplier...

Interesting, makes me think that the 55's will be too short once the moon plates are added. ??????

[safe]

Why don't you just measure the needed length??
Or buy the longer bolt, it's easy to cut them to length.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by safe

... Or buy the longer bolt, it's easy to cut them to length.

Tread a nut in before cutting than back it out, instant thread restorer...

[Nickshu]

Originally Posted by safe

Why don't you just measure the needed length??
Or buy the longer bolt, it's easy to cut them to length.

Well sort of easy...but there are 24 bolts. That's a lot of cutting. Easier just to get the right length.

[Nickshu]

Hey has anyone actually recieved their "torque distrbution washers" from VWbugworld? My order has said "processing" for over a week. I have called and the phone just rings and rings.

Wondering if they are out of business??? I need to check my CC statement and see if they even charged my card.

[ClickClickBoom]

Still haven't seen my moons, My CV with Nords is still tight as a drum, even after driving like it was stolen, that included a few power slides coming out of slow corners. If you haven't got the moons just bolt it up using the correct length bolt and proper washer, new Schnorr or Nord-Lock with intact serrations. I had another conversation with Nord-Lock and it was relayed to me the Nords are reuseable as long as the serrations are distinct.
eric
P.S. I am going to receive a shipment of 200 each of the NLx8s and NLx10s sometime in mid April. I will be selling what I dont need on eBay and possibly here if there is a demand for what is surplus beyond what I need.
eric

[Nickshu]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

Hey has anyone actually recieved their "torque distrbution washers" from VWbugworld? My order has said "processing" for over a week. I have called and the phone just rings and rings.

Wondering if they are out of business??? I need to check my CC statement and see if they even charged my card.

I've given up on VW Bug World. DO NOT ORDER FROM THEM. Their phone just rings to a generic Google Voice mailbox, they have not returned any of my emails and they have not shipped my order for moon plates (But of course they did bill my credit card). I contacted my credit card company to issue a stop payment and try to get a refund.

I ordered and recieved a set of moon plates from here: Type 2 Torque Distribution Washer For 100 MM C.V | VW Parts, Volkswagen Parts, VW Bug Parts, VW Bus Parts, VW Beetle Parts

Quick shipping and good customer service, I'd go with them.

[diy83sc]

Fantastic thread! I did read/skim through all 17 pages but did not find my answer. If it's in here, apologies in advance.

These came off a 76 Carrera 3.0 Targa. The difference I see is they do not have clamps on the larger end of the boots. As you can see, the red-dash markup part of the boot sits inside the flange as shown on the CV to the left. The right side pulled out as they were left hanging unsupported with ending out. My bad.

Unfortunately, I don't have records showing the CV or axle being replaced or know if these are original or aftermarket.

I do see that the gasket for up to early-75 has the same raised bumps along the bolt holes.

Gasket for up to 75

Maybe they were used up to 75 on most cars but were fitted to the 76 3.0 Targa? I'm not finding the flange and boot combo in the parts area matching these. Will check with Pelican in the morning.

Meanwhile, a question about what is available and what others have done.

Are the boot kits our host sells designed for these CV and are larger? Also, the CV are 100mm and the bolts measure 50mm below the head to the end of the threads (not counting the head).



Thanks,
Tony

[RWebb]

when servicing the CV joints it is important to inspect all the parts - check this out:

[Nickshu]

Yep that's what mine looked like. The grease was like WAX, especially the inboard joints. AFAIK they are original 1982, 76K miles.

[Nickshu]

Originally Posted by diy83sc

Fantastic thread! I did read/skim through all 17 pages but did not find my answer. If it's in here, apologies in advance.

These came off a 76 Carrera 3.0 Targa. The difference I see is they do not have clamps on the larger end of the boots. As you can see, the red-dash markup part of the boot sits inside the flange as shown on the CV to the left. The right side pulled out as they were left hanging unsupported with ending out. My bad.

Unfortunately, I don't have records showing the CV or axle being replaced or know if these are original or aftermarket.

I do see that the gasket for up to early-75 has the same raised bumps along the bolt holes.

Gasket for up to 75

Maybe they were used up to 75 on most cars but were fitted to the 76 3.0 Targa? I'm not finding the flange and boot combo in the parts area matching these. Will check with Pelican in the morning.

Meanwhile, a question about what is available and what others have done.

Are the boot kits our host sells designed for these CV and are larger? Also, the CV are 100mm and the bolts measure 50mm below the head to the end of the threads (not counting the head).



Thanks,
Tony

Those do look different than the later joints as they have "bumps" where the bolts go thru whereas the later joints do not have this (the bolts are within the flange completely)

AFAIK the different joint setup from 74-mid 75 used a boot that is sold separately, yet appears to be clamped to the flange the same way as it is on the later cars (late 75-mid 85), just sold as separate pieces. Yes they should have a clamp on the boot which holds the boot to the flange.

Schematic here shows separate clamp: http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=911-332-032-02-OEM&catalog_description=CV%20Joint%2C%20%39%31%31%20%2 8%31%39%37%34%2Dmid%20%37%35%29%20