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Sounds like the way to go. I used a similar approach when working out how to re-attach the CV joint to the wheel side. I could get one nut in but then it would not line up with the other holes. I was getting seriously annoyed.
In the end I jacked the rear arm and then they lined up. |
Well, I still feel like a big fool for not thinking about this right away, but it's exactly what I'll do when I get home from work this afternoon. Thanks, Damo!
Oh, a little more to add, Thank goodness for impact wrenches!!!!!!! Seemed to take forever last night, but I'm pretty sure that without my trusty impact wrench, I'd still be trying to get that axle nut off. I had my 1/2-inch breaker bar with the 32mm socket attached, but unfortunately had nothing to use as a cheater bar. (Gonna have to pick up a piece of pipe from Home Depot, or something, for future reference.) Even so, using the impact seemed to take forever. It's rated for 280 Lbs of torque, so I figured the 100 Lbs of torque (I believe this is correct) specified for the axle nut should have been no problem. I figured wrong. :( After alternating between the impact wrench and bouncing my 200 lbs on the breaker bar for well over an hour, it finally gave way...to the impact wrench. I highly recommend one of these things if you plan on doing any work on your P-car. This thing has really saved the day a few times for me. Not to mention the speed increase you get while doing some of the routine tasks, such as tire removal. Randy |
Randy,
I like to get the car up on jack stands using the torsion bar extensions for the stands and using the jack points to lift the car. Remember to chock the front tires. After removing the rear tires & wheels and putting them under the tunnel for safety, I jack one suspension up but don’t take all the weight off the jack stand. This allows you to take the load off the shock. The shock is preventing the suspension from moving farther down. You can plan ahead and put another jack stand under the suspension to keep it up. Once the load is off the shock, you can remove the lower shock bolt. You don’t need to remove the shock, just collapse it up out of the way and wire it where it will stay up. When you go to reinstall the shock bolt, it is easiest if you can use the jack to manipulate the suspension position and find the slip-in point for the bolt. Mark the side of the shock where it was against the trailing arm. The rubber insert at the shock bolt may have taken a set at an angle and be very difficult to reinstall the other way. When you go cleaning in the area of the trailing arm where the outboard CV was, don’t test the integrity of the wheel bearing seals with spray cleaner. Just brush the grime to the inboard and wipe clean. When the stub axle isn’t torqued in place the preload is released on the wheel bearing and it is possible to contaminate it with spray “brake clean.” Tomorrow I’ll try and post images and combine with my previous posts and everyone’s suggestions for a sequential set of directions for future reference. Be very careful with loaded suspension. There is a lot of spring energy stored there. If the jack slips bad things can happen. If you find your air impact wrench isn’t undoing something in the first few blows, add some air-motor lubricating oil to the air line. A quick free spin will get it to the impact. Of course raising the air pressure helps also. Now might a good time to line up a large torque wrench for the reinstall. Best, Grady |
Yep, lift up slightly on the bottom of the aluminum trailing arm while you disconnect the lower shock mount. Then you can let it down with the jack. Same when you reconnect.
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large probaly means 1" drive.... be sure to have a helper there
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Okay, even though I was singing the praises of my impact wrench last night, I'm still not happy. :mad:
Air Compressor is rated at 7.3 CFM at 90 psi. I've set the pressure to the line at a little above 80 psi. My impact wrench is rated at 260 ft. lbs. (which I assume is the max amount of torque it will apply under "perfect" conditions). Out in the garage last night, it took well over an hour, almost 2 hours, to break loose the axle nut. As stated above, I believe the prescribed torque for that nut is 100 ft. lbs. Granted, I have no idea how much torque WAS applied to that nut when it was last installed. Tonight, I'm trying to beak loose the shock absorber bolt. Not sure what kind of torque that thing is supposed to have, but I wouldn't think more than the 100 ft. lbs. as on the axle nut. Anyway, I've got my jack under the trailing arm, just lifting up on it to relieve the weight from the shock bolt. 20 -30 minutes into it and it doesn't look as though the bolt has turned a bit. I've tried raising the trailing arm to different heights, even to the point of bring the swing arm cover off the jack stand and then lowering it just to where the weight is on the stand. No matter where I set it, the shock bolt does not want to budge. Am I doing something wrong with my impact wrench??? Am I expecting too much out of it? Is there a technique I'm missing? When I took the lug nuts off to remove the tires, ...zip, zip, zip...the nuts came right off. Anything else, it just doesn't seem to have the stuff. Randy |
Randy,
Always make sure the wrench is set to go the proper direction. I’ll bet the wrench is spec for 150-175 PSI. Best, Grady |
Grady,
There's a little sticker on the wrench which specifies 90 psi, forgot to add that in my post. Right below that it says something else about "bursting" Definitely don't need that to happen to me. :) Randy edit: And yes, I've confirmed the direction of the wrench...several times. That wouldn't be the first bone-head move I've "accomplished" in my lifetime. ;) |
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Am I doing something wrong with my impact wrench??? -------- who knows what's right or wrong? Allow me to say that a nice Ingersoll-Rand gun & a twin stage 80gal tank with a 3/8 hose would allow you to kick ass. There is a thing called stiction, or something like that, which is the starting torque for an attached nut to break loose that is greatly higher that the attachment torque. Is there a technique I'm missing? [/QUOTE] ------- If it was my situation I'd set up the breaker bar and socket, get someone strong to lean on it big time, and get a baby sledge and wack the top of the bar at the 90deg point while your bud is straining. Wack the crap out of it till it gives. The induced harmonics rattles the thread attachment. I've never done this on the rear nut, only in other similar situations. Maybe confirm that it's ok to do this? party hearty. |
Randy,
That impact wrench is too small for reliable removal of an axle nut, whether VW Beetle, or 911! I have been using 3/4" drive sockets and breaker/slide bars for over 30 years ... with a cheater bar that happens to be a jack handle [ i.e, free] ... never fails, and I usually need every inch of the five foot bar to get the job done! An impact wrench to do the job would need to be rated at least 500 lb-ft! My weight has varied from 120 - 170 lbs, and it still needed a five mfoot multiplier every time! The 'stiction' Ron talks about is real ... when rust and axle nuts are involved!!! The first time I tried a Craftsman 1/2" breaker bar on a VW axle nut ... sheared off like cheddar cheese -- in 1969! Got my replacement Craftsman and decided to not try that again! Found a set of $39 3/4" drive sockets and slide bar at a 'bargain' tool sale at the local Holidayy Inn ... and never had a problem with axle nuts since then! |
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Thanks for keeping me on the right path! I'm not sure where I got that "100 Ft.Lbs" thought. Looked at that thread I linked to on pg. 3 of this thread and found the following: Torque the nut to 217-253 ft/lbs for SCs and prior and install a cotter pin that fits snugly. Torque Carrera nut to 333 ft/lbs. Also, just so it's posted here, the shock bolt is torqued to 90 Ft. Lbs. Don't I feel stupid!!! Guess I'll swing by my trusty Home Depot at lunch today and see what they have in the way of breaker bars. Probably pick up a few more socketss and a 5 ft. section of pipe while I'm there too. I will get this finished....I swear I will! :mad: RoninLB, Warren, thanks for the advice!!! Randy |
Randy,
Before you go to HD for new tools you might stop by a local pawn shop. Lots of times they have used stuff that is in excellent condition for a really good price. Re your impact wrench, Ron's note about the air hose size is right on, but we run our impact wrench's all day long at 120 psi. Would not have made a difference in this situation (using a 1/2 inch unit on an axle nut) but that extra 20-40 psi does make a difference. JoeA |
have a helper hold the socket on & a big guy jump on the breaker bar
Yes, look for a used 3/4 or 1" one |
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117151362.jpg Needless to say, the driver side axle is off and awaiting my shipment from our host. Was hoping the stuff would be here today. If it's here for the weekend, that would be most excellent too! ;) Leaving out the curse words...the shock bolt was being a pain, but you already knew that. Stopped at the parts store on the way home today and picked up a can of PB Blaster. Read about it a lot here but never had the occasion to use it until now. This stuff is great. Sprayed the bolt. (The directions say "saturate") Let it set a few minutes and tapped/smacked it with a hammer to loosen stuff up. No go. :( Once again, I used the spray-smack method. Again, no joy! After the third spray-smack, I put the impact wrench in place and brap, brap...I saw movement. a few seonds later, I had the bolt in one hand and the axle in the other. Oh, almost forgot to mention that wide grin all over my face. :D Now it's time to work the axle kits when they arrive. Shaun, I should be picking up my "Persuader" stick tomorrow. Wasn't sure what size pipe, but if 1.5" ID is good enough for you, it's good enough for me too. ;) Thanks! Randy |
Went back out to the garage after the last post and who did I see pulling up the drive?
:D http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117154032.jpg Parts are here, so now the "fun" begins. Randy |
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117161258.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117161276.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117161290.jpg LAMBRO 12 - 86 W - GERMANY 13 - 21 http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117161304.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117161324.jpg In this pic, you can see the snap ring is removed (See 2nd pic above) It's ready to go on the press and have the CV Joints pressed off so I can replace the boots. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117161344.jpg Randy |
That's exactly what I was telling myself Randy! That, and "Grease is my friend!" ;)
Randy |
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Great progress Randy, and I totally agree on playing in the mud. Not only fun, but getting your hands dirty on a job like this carries a bit more "job done pride" with it, which only lead to some well-deserved beer.
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Sorry, Randy, didn't mean to leave you hanging like that. :D
Not really much to report. Took a lunch today and did some shopping. Picked up 5 ft. of galvanized 1.5 in. ID pipe, as suggested by Shaun. Also found a 3/4 in drive 20 in. breaker bar that will fit nicely into my new cheater. The store I purchased the breaker from didn't have much in the way of large sized metric sockets in the 3/4 in. drive variety so I think I may have to compromise. They had a 26 in. half-inch drive breaker bar in their on-sale bin for $8.00 so I figured that may be an expendable tool. Going to try my 32mm, 6 pt. socket along with that bar and the cheater and see if that will work. What they heck, it's only 300+ ft. lbs., right? ;) Soaking everything in PB Blaster and plan to hit it fairly early tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, that's all the progress I made today. But with three days ahead of me, hopefully I'll have plenty to post throughout the weekend. Randy |
I did have another question to ask. Earlier in this thread, I posted a few pics that showed the 2 in. spacers I have on my rear wheels. A few nights ago, when I was having difficulty removing the axle nut, I removed the lug nuts for the spacer to see about getting better access to the axle nut.
After removing all the lug nuts, I attempted to remove the spacer, but it didn't want to budge. Not wanting to mess anything up, I replaced the lug nuts for the spacer and left it at that. My question is: Should the spacer have come off with just a little coaxing, or are they usually on there pretty snug? I could understand why one would want them to not come off very easily, I'm just curious, I guess. Randy |
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Did I miss a pic of your car? please post pics. |
Shaun,
Pics of my car have been posted here on the BBS. There are also some in my profile. But hey, who am I to pass up a chance to post pics? ;) Rear spacers: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116902553.jpg My Car: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117289236.jpg Randy |
it's in between 2 red trucks? is that all you or are the neighbors enamored of red?
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hehehe....all me, baby!!!! RED!!!!!!!!!
Here's a pic of the fleet pre-2003: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117326363.jpg In April, 2003, we traded the RAM in for the Vette. Can ya guess what color it is? ;) Randy Someone actually told me that you could get cars in other colors...besides red. I still don't believe him. :D |
Well, spent the day putting finishing the job.
First things first. What everyone has been saying about using a half-inch drive anything to remove the axle nut is definitely CORRECT!. Started out this morning figuring I'd give that 26" half-inch drive breaker bar a try. Connected everything together. Inserted the cheater bar (5 ft of galvanized 1.5" ID pipe - Thanks Shaun!!!) and applied torque. All I managed to do was twist the half-inch part of the breaker bar. The nut did not budge. :( Okay, no worries. I don't have a 3/4" drive 32mm socket, but I thought a 1-3/16th socket would fit. ARGH!!!! Off to the store I go to trade up for a 1-1/4" socket. NOTE: The 1-1/4" is a perfect substitute for a 32mm. Back on the job, using the 1-1/4" socket, the axle nut came right off. PB Blaster i applied to the shock bolt the night before helped that to come off pretty quick too. In no time at all, I had the passenger side axle off and laying next to the drivers side. Now for the parts exchanges. Pressed the axles apart using a hydraulic press. One of the perks of being a retired Marine, living near a military base. Use of the press for as long as i needed it put me out a whole $1.50. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117329449.jpg After cleaning up the CV joint, I wiped down the axle to remove as much dirt and grime as I could before sliding the new boots on. Squeezed a lot of greaseinto both CV joints. My directions specified 90g. Squished it around to work it all over the CV joints and then slid the boots on. I actually pressed the the outer CV joint on before greasing them up. Once the boots were in place, I worked on the end caps. T0 make sure the bolt holes were lined up, I inserted the cap head screws, along with the Moon clips and schnorr washers. Holding them in place with one hand, I positioned the end cap. Once I was sure it was lined up properly, I used a rubber mallet to knock it the rest of the way on. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117330165.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117330183.jpg After they were both assembled, I returned home to begin putting everything back together. Before putting everything in place, I still had to clean the damaged threads on the flange. Cleaned those up and was able to hand thread the screws into the holes. I was now ready to put it together. Inserted the stub axles and positioned the other end against the flanges on the transmission. Hand threaded the cap screws as far as I could and then with a new 8mm hex head socket, tightened them down to 60 ft. lbs. With the internals connected, i moved out from underneath the car to the axle nuts. Unfortunately, my torque wrench only went to 250 ft lbs. Using my cheater bar, I applied the 250, and then used my breaker bar to "fudge" the rest of the torque. I'm confident they are tight enough for spec. Saw the following tip in an article I linked to earlier in this thread. To hold the hub in place while applying the torque, I positioned a crowbar amongst the wheel studs to stop it from rotating. To prevent damaging the threads, I slipped pieces of 1/2 in. galvanized pipe over them. Worked like a champ! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117331605.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117331631.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117331822.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117331841.jpg With everything now back together. It's just a matter of taking her for a drive and trying her out. I did spin the tires while it was up on jackstands so i could listen for any kind of sounds that didn't seem right. Everything sounded fine to MY untrained ear so the drive to the gas station tomorrow morning will be the "shakedown cruise" :D THANKS to everyone who helped. Grady, as usual, you have been a wealth of knowledge. The way you freely share it with everyone is totally remarkable. Randy, a huge "Thank you!" to you as well. Always on the spot with timely advice that is always appreciated. Once again, Pelicans come through and a damaged P-car is brought back to health. Hopefully others will be able to use the guidance you guys have provided to help themselves if they're ever in this situation. Randy |
Oh, one more thing. Is there a special tool for installing the boot clamps?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117330183.jpg I managed to get these installed by squeezing the heck out of them with my fingers, but it seems there has to be some sort of tool for this. They're tight enough to keep the boots from turning on the axles, so I'll leave it at that. :D Randy |
yes, special pliers for the boot clamps
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Circlips on the axles. New schnorr washers and moonclips installed with properly torqued cap screws. Torqued axle nuts. Torqued shock bolts. Torqued lug nuts on the spacers. Torqued lugnuts on the wheels. Spun the wheels to listen for noises. Also noticed they seemed to roll pretty freely. Lowered car, will drive it to the gas station tomorrow and see how she rolls. What did I forget? :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: Think I'll hold off on the pliers for now. Randy |
Don't hold off on the pliers. They are readily available at Autozone and the like. Made by Lisle Corp(lislecorp.com for pics-PN 30800 ear-type cv clamp pliers). I tried other means of squeezing the clamp tight. and they just get all bent up. With the pliers it's a 30 sec job and it's done right. You've come to far to not finish the job. Good work and perseverance.
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Thanks, Mike.
About those pliers. Just how tight should those clamps be? I was able to get them pretty snug using just my fingers. The two hooks that grab are in the 2nd and third spaces. Does it need to be tighter than that? I realize I need to keep road grime and other contamination out of there. Just figured they'd be snug enough. If I need to go tighter, I will. Randy |
After a few unsuccessful stops at a couple of local parts houses, I was finally able to find the pliers for the CV Joint Boot Clamps. Now I understand what that little "square" part that sticks up was for.
It was actually a lot easier to access the clamps thann I thought it would be. I was afraid I was going to have to pull the axles back out just to crimp the clamps, but I was able to get to all of them. Got a good full squeeze on each one. It wasn't difficult by any means, but it would have made sense to do this BEFORE installing the axles. :) This is the outboard boot on the passenger's side: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117405516.jpg Thanks again, Mike, for the suggestion and advice. Gotta love the peace of mind that comes from knowing you did the job 100%. Randy |
good photo - some of the 1,000 views will profit from this...
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Randy,
Have you been back and torque the CV bolts again (63 ft-lbs)? Hint Hint It has been almost 30 days. I ran across this in a Bentley the other day: IMAGE BentleyWrongSpec01 " http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1119381745.jpg " (C) Bentley The correct torque for CV bolts is 33 ft-lbs for M8 bolts and 63 ft-lbs for M10 bolts! I wonder why so many CVs come loose? Best, Grady |
Hey, Grady!!! Thanks for the concern. Hope you're doing better, yourself!!!
The answer to your question is a resounding "yes AND no" ;) After putting everything back together, I noticed another clunking noise. Got underneath and was checking everything else out and found the drive flange on the passenger side of the tranny seemed to be loose. I tried tightening up the bolt for it, but it was pretty snug. JW suggested pulling the differential to have a look so that's what I did. Just last night I was able to get it all back together. In the process I ended up with new drive flange seals and a fresh fill of Swepco. :) While I had it out, I dropped by a local P-car shop and asked what they thought and the mech said he had seen that kind of play before and that it wasn't anything to worry about. Basically, the gear that the flange bolt threaded into had about 1/16th inch of in and out movement on it. So, the CV bolts have been torqued down again, but this would actually constitute an initial torque. Time to reset my CV bolt clock. ;) Randy |
Grady,
We must have different printings of our Bentley's manuals. Here is a shot from mine regarding CV bolt torque. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1119384474.jpg Randy |
Do you have any photos of your setup used to press the CV joint OFF?
OR could you explain how that is done? Do you just cradle the axle side of the joint and use a hydraulic press to press out the center? I'm at the beginning stages of this process, well actually have removed both drive axles and have all of the boots, grease, etc from Pelican. Your help will be appreciated! Thanks, Doug |
Special tool for crimping is neat but a cheaper alternative is to simply take a normal pair of pliers and hollow them out near the tip.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1119385927.jpg |
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