Did one of the ten dumbest moves -- need help

[BR-549]

Hi -- I'm a newbie with a problem. When I washed my 1973.5 today I carefully covered the engine with a nice thick towel. You guessed it. I forgot about the towel and tried to start the engine. I now have a heavy towel jammed down between the fan belt pulley and whatever is beneath it, and kind of wrapped up in the fan belt as well, to the point where the engine will barely turn over. I spent a couple of hours tearing the rag out bit by bit, but it is seriously jammed along the bottom and left side, to the point where I'm losing hope of getting it loose by the grab and pull method.

One thought I had was to soak the rag with bleach to basically disintegrate it. Would that damage anything other than the rag?

Any other ideas?

Thanks.

Ken

[87coupe]

Stop! Don't put bleach on it. Can you post a pic of where the rag is lodged? I would remove the belt for starters, then possibly move on to removing the pulley if needed.

I'm sure one of the experts around here will chime in with good advice.

And you don't need to cover the engine when you wash the car. If it were that sensitive to water it would never run in the rain.

[boomvang]

Many folks recommend covering before a wash, including our host, who also recommends leaving the keys on top of the towel. Ken, do post some pics if possible, we will walk you though this.

Gary

[walt]

Now that you have pulled a major portion of the towel loose can you turn the engine over by hand (clockwise only) and see if that frees the remainder.

[BR-549]

Thanks for the responses. I will try to post a photo tomorrow -- but the rag is jammed directly beneath the pulley, and up the left side.

As for turning the engine over by hand, I'll give that a try tomorrow.

Thanks again.

[LakeCleElum]

It's an easy job to remove the nut holdingon the pully. Since the pulley is in 2 halves, it should come apart easily with the nut off......

[Mike O'Meara]

I watched a very experienced racer wrestle with a red shop towel he had left on his pulley while changing plugs. It got in there good and tight but he got it out by turning the engine over by hand (wrench). Like any good bonehead move, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

[Steeve]

I have a question on this topic. I have never covered my engine when washing my 911, and have never had a problem. I still have my AC condenser over the grill, though. Is that why, or have I just gotten lucky so far?

[unclebilly]

Why not cut the belt and replace it. After you stretch it getting the rag out, you'll need to tighten it up anyway.

[rlh930]

I wash both my cars every couple weeks without covering the motor and have never had a problem restarting either one. I'm sure it will happen some day but until then I will continue to think that the need to cover the motor is an old wives tale.

[87coupe]

It's definitely an old wives tale, if it were true the guys in the NorthWest and other rainy areas would be having problems all the time.

[BR-549]

If I can get back to the rag that is jammed in my engine -- it is beneath the lower pulley. I have the belt off the fan, just so I can move it around to get better access to the rag.

Let me ask, can I safely turn the pulley clockwise without damaging anything?

Also, can anybody give me a reason to not try to disintegrate the rag with bleach?

Thanks. Ken

[pyro57]

Ken,

Cut the belt, but not until you try turning the engine over by hand first, it needs replacing anyhow, I allways cover my engine with a large trash bag (not opened up but flat) seems as if I have problems starting every time if I don't. Put keys on engine under plastic bag (keeps alarm button from gitting wet) and you won't have this problem again.

[cyprusx]

I cover the engine to keep it clean, not because of starting issues because of wetness. I lay a towel on the top and extend over the engine to catch most of the water that comes in. No one likes a spotty engine... heh

[Grady Clay]

Ken,

Welcome to the Forum. You have found the right Porsche place. Please post some pictures of your 911 (with the deck lid closed - hehe). In the general scheme of things this problem is probably very minor, abet embarrassing.

We will have you checking lots of things “just in case” but I’ll bet you just will buy a new fan belt and learn how to get it adjusted correctly. A worthwhile project in its self.

Under the crank pulley may seem like a dark hole that eagerly swallows hardware (and towels) but it is actually a relatively easy place to get to if needed. What are your DIY skills and access to tools and such? Do you have a suitable place to work if necessary?

First, does (or did) your 911 have air conditioning (A/C)? Is the crank pulley for one or two belts?

I would keep working with the dragging out bits & pieces technique. Try some large long-nose Vicegrips (10LN) to grab with.

I don’t expect you will need it but I’ll work on the sequence to get there if all else fails. If you have never done this before, each little step will benefit from a through explanation. (More to come on that in the next day or so if you need it.)


It would be useful to have Wayne’s two books:
How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines
101 Projects for Your Porsche 911
and the Haynes, Bentley and Factory workshop manuals.
We can provide excerpts but there is no substitute for reading (and re-reading) the real thing. Each presents the same basic information, just in a different way with different illustrations. It is not uncommon for someone new to this to misinterpret some operation using only one source. When in doubt, stop and ask questions on the Forum.


Outline

Disconnect battery grounds
Stabilizing the 911.
Jacking it up.
Supporting it at the right height
Safety support

Muffler removal
Rear tin removal
Supporting the engine
Safety support
Engine mount removal
Remove remains of towel

Checking crank pulley runout
Installing new fan belt

Temporary install muffler upside down using old hardware and gaskets
Reconnect batteries and charge
Test run engine for oil leaks at pulley & jackshaft cover.
What if ….
Take muffler back off

Install engine mount
Install rear tin
Install muffler
Test run for exhaust leaks
Remove engine supports.

Remove car supports
Test drive and enjoy

The parts for this operation are:
Muffler gaskets, nuts & bolts.
Fan belt and possibly shims and pulley parts
It is possible (but unlikely) that the crank pulley got bent. It is simple to replace.
Same is true with the crank pulley oil seal and the jackshaft cover.

Some tools that are needed/useful:
Hydraulic jack
Jack-point tool
Jack stands (3)
Chocks for front tires (4)
Powerful ½” drive air impact wrench (for muffler bolts, engine mounts)
A wobbly ¼” drive 10 mm socket on a long (~16”) extension
Sockets & combination wrenches; 10, 15, 17, 19 mm
Torque wrenches (recently calibrated)
PB Blaster aerosol solvent
AntiSeize lubricant
Magnets & grab tools for retrieving errant hardware.
Dial indicator for measuring crank pulley runout

Areas where you can get into trouble:
You absolutely do not want the 911 to fall off the jack stands or the engine become unsupported. Every effort should be done to prevent this otherwise – disaster
The most difficult thing will probably be the muffler hardware removal.
You will find it a challenge reinstalling the rear tin. The engine won’t be lowered more than 1-2 cm and the engine compartment seal will be old and non-pliable. Patients will prevent cross threading the 6 mm bolts.


Don’t let all this scare you. If it turns out to be necessary at all, we will get you through the process.

Best,
Grady

[Rot 911]

The only thing down there in the dark recesses is a steel guard that protects the bottom of the pulley. Pouring bleach down there won't hurt a thing.

[Ken911]

bleach is WAY more corrosive than even salt water do not get it anywhere near your engine.

[BR-549]

Grady -- Thanks for your thorough reply. With the help of some neighbors, I got the car pushed back into the garage, so do have a good work space. I have a reasonable set of tools, a good jack, jack stands, etc. My DIY skills come up a little short. I'm mostly drawing on things I learned 35 years ago during involutary servitude under my engineer father, working on our American V8s. I learned some mechanical skills and lots of new vocabulary.

I will continue with the tearing it out bit by bit approach.

How concerned to I need to be about turning the lower pulley? Can I screw up anything in the engine doing that?

Thanks again. Ken

[Gunter]

Forget about the bleach. Bleach will clean the towel but will not disintegrate it.
Cut the belt, clamp one end of the belt solid with a vice-grip, then pull hard to remove the belt. You may have to find some leverage point for this on top of the engine.
If you can get a wrench on the center nut of the pulley, turn clockwise to get the remains of the towel, it will not damage the pulley.

When installing the new belt, make sure that you do it the right way:
Count the shims on either side of the pulley-half, there should be 6 altogether. Try installing the new belt with the same shims as the old set-up, then check the tension.
You need the correct wrench for the fan-pulley, do not use the fan blades to hold the pulley when tightening.
I use thick clear plastic over the engine when washing. Good luck.

[Joe Bob]

I keep the engine running while I hand wash it....it thinks it's raining and doesn't die on me....