Generally accepted theory is that short intake tracts are best for high rpm power while long intake tracts produce more low end torque.

If you look at most manufacturer's variable length intake manifolds, two paths are available; a long and short path controlled by an ECU acting through a valve or set of valves to change the air intake path. The long path is the default path from idle up to a certain engine speed, load and other engine/vehicle factors; at which point a shorter path is presented to shorten the air flow path to the intake ports.

Sherwood

There you go... I had it backward.... Sorryhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...eys/spankA.gif

No problem. I'll trade your faux paus for your "problem" car though. :)

Sherwood

Hello Matteo

I know that this is kind of late to ask, but what color is your car?

Thanks in advance

Sergio

Sergio,

You seriously need to read this thread from the beginning. It's well worth it. All your questions will be answered.

911GT2: The color is several shades darker than Mexico Blue. It had to be darker because they couldn't match the powdercoat to the stock Mexico blue hue. Powdercoating was used on the chassis after it was baked, stripped, etc. due to it's durabilty & toughness. Instead of having the underbody darker than the sheetmetal they darkened the paint several shades to match. Just about everybody I know likes it the way it is. I personally have a mexico blue car which is a clone of Matteo's & am not fond of the color...it's a little too much like powder blue. Matteo's is really nice, sort of a lighter version of Audi's nogaro blue.

I just wanted to wrap up the thread with the final dyno numbers, set up and considerations...

I am super happy with Ninemeister and how the car has turned out. These guys are very meticolous, skillful and talented, but most of all they are enthusiasts.

I remember when after a track day at the local track to shake down the car there were 8 people working on my car (swapping front calipers, reconvert the RS- fan pulley to a dual-pulley solution and other minor changes) at gone 6pm so that I could get home at a decent time (I live 220 miles from their shop)....

Anyway the final numbers stack up like this (on the 9M dyno):

Power = 404.0HP @ 7,200 rpm
Torque = 452Nm @ 5,141 rpm

Bob Watson had dynoed the old 3.9L engine at "above 385hp".

The difference between the 2 powerplants is not so much the peak power but the eagerness of the 9M unit to get tto redline. In 1st, 2nd and 3rd is quite incredible.

Also (as you can see from the chart) the torque curve is quite flat, giving the engine a great elasticity, very useful for street driving.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1249392558.jpg


Another area where I thought the car needed sorting was the geometry as I felt it was very nervous, especially on the road where the tarmac is not often smooth.

Well at first we threw away the Goodrich (I think the major culprits of the herratic behaviour of the car, understandable after having been on the car for 3 years) for some Toyo R888.

Then sorted some Toe and Camber issues at the rear.

This is what I am running now...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1249392766.jpg


I have now ordered a set of the Zuffenhaus Fuchs in 17' and I am thinking of going down a size for the tyres.... 255s and 315s look cool, but I feel the car is over-tyred at 1,050kg (2,350lbs) when you think a GT3 comes with a 235-295 combo.

For once I think the car is now really sorted.

I am looking forward to falling in love with it again, to learning how to properly drive a 911 on the track again (after a sweet year with a mid-engine car, but that is another story), to driving to the pub on a sunny Sunday afternoon...

Thanks to ya'll for the support and encuragement.

I will make sure to keep you posted with impressions and what was worth it, what was overkill, what was a miss etc... but I feel I need to get some proper miles in it before I can attempt a serious analysis.

Ciao for now

Matteo

Cheers Matteo - thanks for the update! Enjoy the "new" version and those B roads :)

Happy for you mate

Sounds good mate. You could take a run up to Centre of Gravity some time and have those alignment settings double checked to be sure, his set up there is outstanding.

Am trying to clear some space to come pax with you next Wednesday - looking forward to seeing how she goes!

Glad to hear it's done. Enjoy it in good health. Those are some very good numbers.

Yep - Another one looking forward to a ride on Wednesday.

Thanks for the update. I'll have to get my iPhone out and do the conversions to lb feet! How do you like the R888s? All my Spec Miata friends are rather hateful when they speak of them compared to the older version.

I wonder if your desire to go to a smaller tire is borne out of a compound issue? Not a soft enough compound for the weight? For track use, I imagine a tire like a Hoosier A or R compound, or a Hankook Ventus in a C51 or 71 compound would do the trick. Driving around town though on R compounds when cold is NOT advisable. The "A's" are better, but they still like a bit of heat. LOL.

Were you able to drive the car with the new tires but old alignment? Curious if the erratic behavior was alignment related or not. I see some changes at the rear, but I'm not sure what they actually were. Did the toe go from out to in on the rear? (I'm not familiar with, and can't read the little print on that display)

In the end, finding a great dual purpose tire is very hard.

Thanks for keeping the conversation going here, and glad you're hammering it a bit!

The rear now has much less toe in. This is a fairly common setup for an early (-89) suspension with wide tires. The rear will create toe in anyway as the suspension is compressed, so you do not need that much, too much will create a lot of drag!

Given the sizes there is little choice here. Either R888 or V70s. Hoosiers are not road legal here in the UK.
I am waiting for the second set of wheels to mount the Hoosiers on.


The herratic behaviour of the car was definetly due to the tyres. I mounted the Toyos and the car magically started "behaving" even with the old set up.

What CBRacerX said about the toe.

Next Wed I am booked (with a lot of UK 911 nuts) at Snetterton for the 1st track day since the car was 100% sorted. Cant wait!

Very nice Matteo!!

Can you review the differences in run 002 vs 053&6?

Yes. I am away for a couple of days. I will elaborate when I get back....

Matteo,

Congratulations my friend on your achievements, stand-up "eye-on-the-prize" attitude and perseverance to see out the true car through all the trials. I wish you nothing but the best, and I'm truly happy to see you reaching this point.

Enjoy in good health brother!

Teo
knew it would come good in the end ,persistence was the key ;),anyhow any chance of some on board video from next week as sadly I cant make it

Cheers Andy

Congrats!

Basically 002 was one of the 1st runs with my DC62 cams, different trumpets and Timmins headers and exhaust system.

053 and 056 are with the 9m race cams, 9m headers and exhaust systems and 9m induction kit.

Timmins headers are perfectly fine but did not work too well with the rest of the engine. Remember 9m's approach is the one to maximise the fluid velocity out of the combustion chamber.

Their heads are different in design and the ports are smaller than the RS size that were on my engine originally.

The headers were originally chosen for the old engine. What's interesting is the huge difference in torque that the new headers were giving.

But it is a little misleading to just look at run 2 and 56 and conclude that the headers are worth 50hp.

Remember my old engine was putting out somewhere between 375hp and 385hp.

Track Report
 

So in the last 3 weeks I have been to Snetterton and Silverstone.

With the new geometry and the new tyres (Toyo R888s) I was confident the car would be quick.

Well this car is incredible.

There was no road going car that was faster at either track.

I was comfortably faster than BMW M3 CLS and V8, BMW M6s, CLK Black, 996 GT2s, 997 Turbos, 360 CS, Catherams RS300 etc.

I had a great time staying glued to a well driven (I know the driver and he's a super fast guy) 997 GT3RS.

Especially at Silverstone where there are numerous very fast turns I thought the 997 GT3 RSs would be faster.

But it was not the case.

They could carry a little more speed on entry, whilst my car felt a little less planted. I suppose the aero is much more effective on the new cars...

But they had nothing on the straight and I was able to brake later.



After more than 4 years I can say it was worth it.

My goal at the beginning of this journey was to build a 911 that would compete with the 996 GT3 on the race track but still be able to be driven on the road and maintain the classic features of the old aircooled cars.

I have had very many doubts during these 4 years, especially about the outcome.

Now I am happy to say that this car has gone even beyond my best expectations.

The look on the GT2 and 7GT3RS drivers in the paddocks was telling the story.

PS
I bought the race-logic DL1 and Video 4 system. So I will play around with it a little but then I will be able to produce some video with telemetry (Gs, rpms. speed, lateral g, braking etc) to share....

Well done! I know that look well too;)

I love a happy ending.

I'll just add a snippet of explanation here since there are a lot of people viewing this interesting thread:

You want to maximize the fluid velocity out of the combustion chamber, b/c you want to extract as much of the burned (waste gases) as you can. As the rpms get wilder there is less time to do so....

Very nice Matteo! Congratulations!

Cannot wait for in car video. Love to see old cars kicking the new cars butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matteo,

What a wonderful outcome to a very long process. I just wish you were still in the States. I would have loved to try to catch you on the NC back roads (if I ever get mine finished). :)

All the best and send videos

Ed

Sweet.

BTW, IMHO it's not aero that gives the new cars (huge) corner entry advantage, but geometry. We can discuss offline if you'd like.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. You can PM me or reply on the thread.

I really do not want to fit a huge bi-plane wing on the car...

Matteo - a real shame I shifted to Singapore before we had a chance to do that sunny(?) British Sunday afternoon 'RSR to pub' thing :( however I'm really delighted she's finally turned out well :) and who knows maybe we can persuade you to take her for a short 'pub run' to Classic Lemans next year ;)

Martin

Matteo,
Thanks for sharing your story about your awesome 911. I'm really glad to see everything turn out great and are able to represent old 911 to modern cars. Good job!

Hoping to hear more....if thread is ongoing.

GT2.....GT3RS are overtaken on the straight..?

Did I read that correctly ?
_____________

'82 911 - sold
'77 Spitfire
'80 928

HA! you have edited your post ;)

I never said I was overtaking GT2s or GT3RSs on the straight.

My lap times were just faster on a track like Silverstone.

Still if you know Silverstone you realize it is a track that rewards power.

It is clear that different driving abilities play a huge part in these comparisons so let's try to be a little more scientific...

Drivers Republic (probably Chris Harris) lapped Silverstone in 2:10.10 in a 997GT2 and 2:11.20 in a 997Turbo (source http://www.fastestlaps.com/track57.html)

We can all agree that CH or whoever was driving for DR is a decent driver.

My best lap on my second time out at Silverstone with the 911 is 2:12.54 at a track day. Using the best times I posted in the different sectors I could have lapped in 2:08.50.

Now it is not that simple as sometimes you sacrifice a corner entry speed in order to maximise the exit etc so maybe you cannot just add the best times... but it is clear that with consistency and seat time the lap times will go down significantly.

I already "found" 1.5 seconds in 2 corners (on my fastest lap it seems I am braking 50 yards sooner than in the other laps before Stowe... traffic?!? etc).

That would put me at 2:10.15 which is very close to the 997GT2 time from DR.

Going from a different angle a friend (Sean Edwards of Porsche Supercup fame in Europe and FIA GT3 driver) did a 2.08.40 lap with a 996GT3RS.

We can pretty much establish that such time is close to the car's limits. As I look at his sector times vs my best sector times you can see that the Gs pulled and the exit speeds are pretty similar.

Since I don't consider my driving abilities to be on a par with Sean's (winner last year in Monaco, rookie of the year in 2008 SC etc) it means that the car is somewhat a capable machine.

But all this is quite irrelevant.

The car performs well, quite beyond what my expectations were. My benchmark when we all started was the 996GT3.

Being able to stay close to a 997GT3RS is a great result, whether or not I can overtake them on the straight ;)

Anyway I bought an in car system. Next track day is booked for the 15th of October (which also coincide with us moving house so I may have to cancel it).

I am planning on having everything set up for then....

"PS
I bought the race-logic DL1 and Video 4 system. So I will play around with it a little but then I will be able to produce some video with telemetry (Gs, rpms. speed, lateral g, braking etc) to share...."

Any video?

Wow great work Matteo, what a great read. Sorry to hear about your engine but I'm so glad it had a happy ending with a true beautiful machine. Cheers JP

I am finally able to post an update....

After BBS Motorsport told me they were too busy to build me a set of E87 I decided to go with CCW.

The wheels came out quite nice and I am pleased with them. And it means that I can drive the car!

A little issue with the fuel bladder (has it been 5 years already :eek:) was dealt with (had to have ATL Europe build a tank for me... but it is awesome) and this weekend I joined 30 other 911s for a trip to SPA Francorchamps.

We had a blast and my car performed exceptionally well.

Here is a couple of pics and a quick video of a lap (sorry for the quality of the video, I need to fix the brightness of the main camera).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276183475.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276183493.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276183513.jpg

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the run into eau rouge must be pretty scary?

Very nice.

Who was in the car with you, John, Leonard?

I had a lot of people in for some pax laps... but both John and Leonard (who is btw a fantastic guy) were a bit busy!