resilient to allow off site PPI

kwm · 01-30-2006, 04:18 AM

I came across an 87 3.2 C I am very interested in this weekend. However, the manager of the lot it is on said he would not let my mechanic come get the car for a PPI until a sale price is agreed on and a down payment has been paid. I don't understand their resilience to my request. Are they hiding something? However I hardly think they are knowledgeable enough about Porsche to hide anything. No joke they did the truck pop when I asked to see the engine.... I know I should walk away from the car w/o a PPI but walking away from this car is going to be very hard to do. Any tips on how to make them less resilient to comply with my off sight PPI? And, should I walk away w/o it? I am going to talk to my mechanic today to see how much of a inspection he is able to do at their location. Thanks for the input. Also, I can't remember if the 3.2 still had the chain tensioner issue or not? I know it had the valve guide issue and that has been repaired in this car already.

imcarthur · imcarthur's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by kwm
I know I should walk away from the car w/o a PPI

Then, you know what to do. Tell the dealer that too.

Or sign the contract subject to . . . And postdate your deposit for 1 day after the PPI.

Ian

dorschman · dorschman's Garage

Ask them why they will not let you do it. Try to think up a good reason. I really can't unless he thinks you are going to steal it or might wreck it during the ppi. Offer to let one of his employees (or himself) come along for the ppi if he is that concerned about it.

kwm · 01-30-2006, 04:33 AM

One hurdle is that it is in a real small town in the middle of nowhere and my mechanic's shop is about 30 miles away.....

tonythetarga · 01-30-2006, 04:40 AM

If your mechanic comes to them, is there a place for him to use the hoist? Is there a garage somewhere close that you might be able to make a deal with and let your guy inspect the car at someone else's garage?

(ps, Ian, post-date checks doesn't work state side. I'm an ex-canuck here and have found out that post-dated checks will get cashed by the bank right away.)

Thomas Owen · 01-30-2006, 04:41 AM

The first thought is that there must be something to hide. I can not imagine how, when the business is to actually sell cars, that a dealer would hesitate to allow a Buyer to make a knowledgeable, well investigated purchase. If you had it checked and found a problem or two that gives you leverage and they apparently do not want that.
I have bought cars before without a PPI, but the seller had already agreed to let me take the car for one, and I could tell the condition. I would never buy one under the conditions you mention.
Good luck -

kwm · 01-30-2006, 04:49 AM

Damn it, thanks Tom. I may do this. Show up with my mechanic, get them to let just the two of us go for a test drive (not that their fat boy salesman could fit in the car anyway) then who is to say how long we should be out and who is to say we cant stop by the garage. Here is basically what occurred. I spotted the car by chance about 8 hours after it came to their lot as a trade in on a 996. I dove up and started grilling hem about the car (I call it asking informative questions about a major purchase they saw it more as me being annoying but I feel this is only b/c they knew nothing about the car and then they may have gotten offended. So I reviewed the few service records they had and asked if I could take it for a PPI. They said not until we talk price, an offer is made and signed off on by you, and a down is paid. I then got frustrated and left. End of story. Problem is this is a really solid from first glance.

deanp · 01-30-2006, 04:57 AM

Negotiate the purchase price and refundable deposit as being contingent upon acceptable PPI results. Put in writing that if the PPI turns up repairs required for more than $XXX that the purchase agreement is void. Put the deposit on a credit card and keep a copy of the written and signed agreement. If the car doesn't work out, get them to refund the deposit to the c.c. If they don't, dispute the charge and use the signed agreement and results of the PPI (which you pay for) as your proof.

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

I don't see the big problem as long as your deposit is fully refundable FOR ANY REASON and THAT is in writing. I understand their reluctance to just let the car be taken away to parts unknown (to them) without any paperwork to fall back on, and if you really are a serious buyer you should have no problem negotiating a price and putting up a small deposit based on the car having no stories. You should already have run a CarFax at the very least. The PPI should be used as a basis for re-negotiating (if issues are found) or a reason to walk away.

And not meaning to be a spelling net-cop or a wise-ass but the word is "resistant".... you coming back to them after they treated you with disrespect makes you "resilient"..

oldE · 05:13 AM

KWM,
It took me a while to understand what you were saying. I think the word you meant to use is "resistant". "Resilient" means he was showing some flexibility to your suggestions. (sorry, I'll step out of @sshole mode, now)
I would say offer a deposit, and sign an agreement to purchase, pending a successful PPI. Another tack might be to see if you can get the name from the documents of the 'guy who traded it in' (although I would doubt there was such a person, as this would make this car the second Porsche on their lot, and one would think they knew how to open the engine compartment by now), and see if you can get any information from him.
If they won't agree to a return policy, I don't think you want to be doing business with these folks. Good luck.
Les
Edit: Gary types faster than I do!

javadog · 01-30-2006, 05:15 AM

Any dealer that lets someone taks a car out of town for a day, with no contract or deposit, is an idiot and won't be in business very long. Their position is not at all unreasonable. Would you let a perfect stranger take one of your cars for a day, with nothing more than a promise to return it? I hope not. Both sides have to be protected.

Negotiate the price for the car, wrote up a contract for sale contingent upon the car passing the PPI and write them a deposit check. Make sure that they agree that the deposit will be refunded, if the car fails the test, and put that in writing on the contract. Make sure there is an agreement between the parties ahead of the PPI as to whether the price will be renegotiated based on results from the PPI. Just think through the process and make sure to document whatever is important to you. If they won't come to terms with you, walk away.

Good luck,
JR

kwm · 01-30-2006, 05:40 AM

I menat it in this way...
Main Entry: re•sil•ient
Pronunciation: -y&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin resilient-, resiliens, present participle of resilire to jump back, recoil, from to leap -- more
to recoil from to move away from

kwm · 01-30-2006, 05:46 AM

What about the fact that my car with keys is left at their lot isn't that a form a collateral. I drove there in a 06 Jetta VR6 with 5k on it and easily worth twice the price of the 87 Carerra. I just didn't like their RESILIENCE when I asked to get the PPI. At first they didnt even know my shop was 30 miles away.

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

My my, 8 posts and already we are tossing shots into the crowd...

javadog · 01-30-2006, 06:09 AM

kwm,

Leaving your car with them does doodly-squat to protect them legally in the event that you run off with their car. They have no right to own it and, for all they know, it may not even be your car. Don't sweat it. Car deals are done every day. If you don't like the sales person you dealt with, talk to another one.

JR

oldE · 01-30-2006, 06:16 AM

KWM,

From "The Princess Bride": "You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means."

About using the Jetta as collateral: I don't think you even want to go there, either formally or informally. If you get into a dispute with them over the condition of the car, you wouldn't want them to get their hands on something "worth twice the price".
Either they will acquiesce to your suggestion of terms for a PPI, you will take a gamble on the car on their terms or you will walk away. It is up to you. As before: Good luck.
Les

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

You're among friends here kwm. These cars have a powerful pull only matched by women. Sometime we need our buds to keep us from being lured onto the rocks by the siren call of a "problem" 911.

I think your gut is telling you right but see if you can structure a deal such that you [and the dealer, lets be fair] is protected. A deposit would be fair but don't agree to a price. The PPI will almost always turn up stuff which you then use to negotiate the price. For example, needs tires, X is leaking, etc.
If you can't get a PPI without agreeing to a price, trust your instincts and walk away.

Perhaps the word you were thinking of is "recitence"?
As in "I don't understand their recitence to my request."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resilience

-Chris

kwm · 01-30-2006, 06:24 AM

OK thanks guys I do appreciate the comments. I just spoke to my mechanic about this topic and I think we have forged a game plan. If anything interesting happens I will hopefully post it to the thread. Have a good one

PS. I wasn't thrying to throw any shots in the crowd.

reed930 · 01-30-2006, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kwm
I menat it in this way...
Main Entry: re•sil•ient
Pronunciation: -y&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin resilient-, resiliens, present participle of resilire to jump back, recoil, from to leap -- more
to recoil from to move away from

Huh? I don't mean to be a total jerk, but that is not what resilient means. That is its derivation. (In the same way that the word microscope means a scientific instrument not "to see small"). According to Webster, resilient means a : capable of withstanding shock without permanent deformation or rupture b : tending to recover from or adjust easily to misfortune or change. synonym see ELASTIC.

More to the point: I think the seller is reasonable in asking that certain details be agreed upon before he lets you take a car for a PPI. PPIs are fairly invasive and I would not let anyone perform any work on a car I was selling without being reasonably sure that he was very serious about purchasing it.

Quote:

Originally posted by kwm
What about the fact that my car with keys is left at their lot isn't that a form a collateral. I drove there in a 06 Jetta VR6 with 5k on it and easily worth twice the price of the 87 Carerra.

Did you bring the title along with you?

kwm · 01-30-2006, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
You're among friends here kwm. These cars have a powerful pull only matched by women. Sometime we need our buds to keep us from being lured onto the rocks by the siren call of a "problem" 911.

I think your gut is telling you right but see if you can structure a deal such that you [and the dealer, lets be fair] is protected. A deposit would be fair but don't agree to a price. The PPI will almost always turn up stuff which you then use to negotiate the price. For example, needs tires, X is leaking, etc.
If you can't get a PPI without agreeing to a price, trust your instincts and walk away.

Perhaps the word you were thinking of is "recitence"?
As in "I don't understand their recitence to my request."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resilience

-Chris

Boy O Boy isnt this true. When they fired up that 3.2 I almost crapped myself. To sit in it and stand near it I drove away thing this isn’t merely a mode of transport from A to B and I wasn't even sure the word "car" was really applicable either.