First Engine Drop Questions

ausgezeichnet · ausgezeichnet's Garage

Hey guys,

I am preparing to drop my engine for the first time to get my transmission out to have it repaired. I've read 101, Bentley and quite a few pelican posts but I still have a few questions.

1. Is it any more difficult to remove the engine with the transmission attached rather than removing only the engine then removing the transmission separately?

2. To get the engine out, the back end of the car has to be jacked up pretty high. This obviously places a lot of stress on the front suspension. I assume the front suspension can handle this?

3. How much does the engine and transmission weigh. I will be using a 1500 lb ATV jack to lower the engine out of the car.

Thanks.

FrayAdjacent911 · 02-24-2006, 02:32 PM

1. I've read, and done it, and think it's easier with the two components joined.

2. Yeah, the back has to be jacked up enough for all the top end stuff of the engine to clear the bumper, but it shouldn't stress the front suspension much.

3. your jack should be enough, the engine and tranny together probably weigh in the area of 4-500lb.

ausgezeichnet · ausgezeichnet's Garage

Great. Thanks!

FrayAdjacent911 · 02-24-2006, 02:38 PM

They make transmission dollies, those make it easy to separate the two, and not risk damaging anything. I used an ATV jack to transplant the engine from my 70 to my 69... it was a b****, but it worked great.

bbaer6676 · 02-24-2006, 03:04 PM

i have also used the jack with no problems, remove them both together too.

yelcab1 · 02-24-2006, 03:43 PM

I have two small furniture moving dollies bought at OrchardSupplies, one on each side of the engine under the heat exchangers.

yes, drop the tranny and engine as one unit,

Diesel_mp5 · 02-24-2006, 06:21 PM

Well depending if you have a early push or a late pull cluch.

I love to take the motor out in my 66 by its self. Its fast and easy. But I have a push clutch so it is easy to seperate the engine and tranny.

With the late style pull cluch, I fount it annoying to get it apart out of the car, there is no way I wouldnt try to seperate them in the car.

When pulling the motor I use two jacks. One to lift the car and one to lower the engine and tranny.

Good luck. Dont forget to use jackstands be safe.

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

I want to submit another vote for "together” I used a standard floor jack, and the jack point for perfect balance is just in front of the sump plate.

I disconnected everything then lowered the engine down as far as my jack would go, I then used a second SUV jack and a flat board to jack up the now almost weightless chassis from right in front of the transmission mounts. I then just rolled the motor out and continued my work while it was on the floor jack.

Of course I was only doing a re-seal, Carrera tensioner update, and a valve adjustment, so I did not need to move it to my engine stand.

I removed the transmission during this effort as well, I just unbolted it from the block and lifted it off, I don't know about the weight on other tyrannies, but my 80' 915 was easily manageable by myself. Same goes for bolting it back on, I just aligned the disc and bolted it back up.

MattKellett · MattKellett's Garage

Here's a shot of Tom Amon removing both engine and tranmission together, he made it look so easy and had the whole assembly balanced on the jack.

And when the jack was lowered it cleared the rear valance by maybe 1". He then just placed it on a couple of crates and removed the transmission.

A shot of the engine nearly reassembled.

Ready to reinstall

Matt

87 Carrera Coupe

Diesel_mp5 · 02-24-2006, 10:03 PM

Nice shots.. motor looks to have turned out great. Hope his project goes as good.

ischmitz · ischmitz's Garage

Just be careful with the "balancing the engine/tranny on a jack" aproach. There are adapter-plates that craddle the engine and fit into the jack. Don't try this without one of those. A standard jack will will not cut it here without that adaptor. If you use an ATV Jack you might want to place a couple of 2x4's to properly rest the heat exchangers on the jack.

Last, I like to place a long 2x4 right behind the tunnel exit under the car and do the lifting of the chasis there rather than having the car on high jack-stands as shown above. The reason for this is that you can have the car with the engine pretty low to the ground and supported by the ATV jack when you finally remove the 4 main engine bolts. You don't have to lower the 600 lbs package from very high but simply lift up the car sitting on the 2x4. This is much safer since the engine does not sit high in the air with a chance to really DROP.

Cheers,
Ingo

ausgezeichnet · ausgezeichnet's Garage

Ingo,

I like your idea, what do you mean by the "tunnel exit" under the car? Do you mean the tunnel that the clutch cable goes though?

-Mike

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by ischmitz
Just be careful with the "balancing the engine/tranny on a jack" aproach. There are adapter-plates that craddle the engine and fit into the jack. Don't try this without one of those. A standard jack will will not cut it here without that adaptor. If you use an ATV Jack you might want to place a couple of 2x4's to properly rest the heat exchangers on the jack.

Last, I like to place a long 2x4 right behind the tunnel exit under the car and do the lifting of the chasis there rather than having the car on high jack-stands as shown above. The reason for this is that you can have the car with the engine pretty low to the ground and supported by the ATV jack when you finally remove the 4 main engine bolts. You don't have to lower the 600 lbs package from very high but simply lift up the car sitting on the 2x4. This is much safer since the engine does not sit high in the air with a chance to really DROP.

Cheers,
Ingo

I've used a standard jack both times without any issue, and it's just a cheap Harbor Freight orange jack, these motors have great balance, it never gave me an issue.

ischmitz · ischmitz's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by ausgezeichnet
Ingo,

I like your idea, what do you mean by the "tunnel exit" under the car? Do you mean the tunnel that the clutch cable goes though?

-Mike

Yes, place the 2x4 right next to the seam where the floor pan ends in the rear and the clutch cable and all the other cables become visible. This is a strong enough area and you don't run the risk of having the floor pan collapsing on you.

If you feel uncomfortable with that approach you could buy two jack adapters that go into the jack points on either side of the car. Then this becomes a two or three-person job. Two guys control the jacks on either side while a third watches that everything is clear while lifting the car.

Typically, you will forget one connection or another the first time you do the engine drop (e.g. speedo, throttle linkage, fuel return). Ask me how I know. I once did not think of the aftermarket head temperature sensor connected to one of the spark plugs. Caught it in time though. Good luck,

Ingo

ischmitz · ischmitz's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott R
I've used a standard jack both times without any issue, and it's just a cheap Harbor Freight orange jack, these motors have great balance, it never gave me an issue.

Scott, it all depends on how comfortable you are with this. I still think for a first-time engine drop I don't like the idea of the engine balanced on the sump-plate I remember how nervous I was.

I did end up with a damaged sump plate on my 2.7 doing it this way. The drain plug thread got eaten up. These are NLA and I had to go with a non-drain plug version. Now the 3.6 is an entirely different story. There is not flat part or sump plate at the bottom of the case any longer....

DByers · 10:20 AM

Both tranny and engine together. I did mine solo using this jack adapter from our host.

Found on this page,
adapter jack

This worked fantastic! I also did what Ingo suggests with regards to the 2x4 under the rear seam. They now have this jack adapter for the engines without sump plates. Well worth the $.

sdether · 02-25-2006, 10:21 AM

I picked up a motorcycle jack at Costco, when I was doing my engine swap. I think it was about $80. It's perfect for removing the engine & tranny (have always done them together) and is even a great platform for moving the engine around and working on it. Just jack it up and you have it at stool work height.

I must have put that engine in and out of the car about 10 times when i was testing fitting and with that jack it became a breeze to do by myself. I highly recommend the investment.

There is a picture in the middle of me pulling out the old 2.0L on the motorcycle jack:

http://www.claassen.net/porsche/blog/2005/04/short-version-of-swap-in-pictures.html

Hugh R · 02-25-2006, 11:41 AM

101 Projects is good, but you might miss the electrical plug on top behind the engine on the drivers side, as you lower the engine you'll see an electrical bundle top left of the engine as you face the front of the car, unplug it when engine is about 1/3 dropped, otherwise you'll damage it.

rbuswell · rbuswell's Garage

What is the name brand of the jack and is it available by Internet/mail order? What is the maximum weight capacity?

sdether · 02-25-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rbuswell
What is the name brand of the jack and is it available by Internet/mail order? What is the maximum weight capacity?

The way it's stored away right now i can't make out any markings. It was no name brand or anything, just what costco had. It's got a 1500lb rating, which is way overkill, but there's probably nothing smaller for cycle jacks. Noticed that Craftsman has one that looks a lot like mine for $79 (apparently $89 after today)

The main thing to check before getting a jack is that the liftweight has enough range to lift the engine up to the mounts. Mine was just barely high enough.