My '74 RS IROC project

[wesayso]

I have to watch this, subscribed!

[Eric Hahl]

I'm subscribing too. Looks like a great project. Can't wait to see some more of Dons magic.

[kenikh]

Don's work is great! You made a good choice sending him your car. He's one of the good guys, as you well know!

[shamrockcustoms]

subscribed..Im starting my gulf blue IROC this fall


Jay

[cerberus1]

Trouble mounting your calipers to 930 trailing arms? You could always sell the T-arms to me. Heh, Heh. Seriously, great looking project. We're all rooting for you.

[SteveM911]

Great looking project, can't wait to see more pictures as it progesses.

[Rich76_911s]

Wow that is really an impressive project you are taking on, good luck!

Don,
What is your prefered method for removing that undercarraige gunk? You a wire brush guy, grinder, heat and putty knife?

Rich

[mpeastend]

Guys, thanks to all for kind words and encouragement. It will take a while to complete, but I believe it will be well worth it. I hope to have it all done in less than a year. There will be a short hiatus over the winter as I source the motor, but next spring/summer...Oh boy!

Rich76_911s- I'm not sure what method Don uses but since he hasn't answered yet, I believe it was good old fashioned elbow grease. I think they used sharp scrapers and wire wheels. When I had originally asked Don about removing it, I could almost hear a groan through the phone(just kidding!)...it is a big, tough job! I asked him if he had heard of new methods that were being discussed on Pelican like using pelletized dry ice in a pressure blaster or the method of freezing w/dry ice and then cracking it off. He hadn't but I think he looked into it....probably not very feasible. It's not a job to be taken on lightly, it adds a fair amount of labor to the cost! I wonder how much weight is saved. All the undercoating can't weigh much more than 20-25 lbs. I'm not concerned w/the extra noise from road/stones, just wanteda tough coating that would protect the underside. I think Don will be using Por 15, but don't quote me on that!

[911teo]

We are going to "bake" the car.
I am not really sure about the details but the tub will go in a high temperature oven that will polverize any paint/glue and reduce it to dust.

After that we'll powder coat the inside (and wheel wells and underneath).

I guess it works like the "self-cleaning" option of the kitchen oven... but don't quote me on that.

My tub is going to the "oven" next week. I will ask more info abt the details.

My shop (Zuffenhaus here in Charlotte) is going to apply POR15 then in the spots that were not reacheable by the powder coating.

In terms of costs we found it convenient. As Mike said the old fashion method is very labor intensive.

You can PM me for the "financial" details. We considered also acid dipping but decided against that because of the risk of pockets forming in areas that are not easily accessible...

[mpeastend]

Rich76_911s- I wasn't willing to go to the extremes of Matteo, you have to remove everything including the wiring harness or it will be reduced to ash as well! Don told me that removing and installing an entire wiring harness in a car rivals the undercoating job! Very hard to get the wires out and back in again! If you have the resources, Matteos way is the most thorough! His project is a showcase for everything done to the best of a shop's ability!

[911teo]

Ha! For us the harness was not an issue as we started with a bare tub.

So I guess it really depends on what your starting point is.

Mike your car will be awesome! It will be great to have a '74 Mexico Blue twin

[Rich76_911s]

Hey guys thanks for the tips on how to remove that stuff. The big bake is not going to happen for me either. I tried on one of my cars to remove the wiring. I stopped before I even started. If, and that is a big if, I got it out there was about a 2% chance I could have gotten it back in. Being able to powdercoat the underside would be really nice though.

So far I have been going heat and a sharp putty knife. It is slow and tedious, but i have to check for rust and make sure I am getting back on the road with a solid tub. Thanks again.

I can't wait to see both of your projects progress.

Mpeastend, I'm moving to philly in a couple months. So when you are driving the car back up to the north east stop by.

Rich

[tom1394racing]

I used a Wurth DBS 3500 undercoating removal tool. No heat ...No putty knife...Just time consuming.

It takes off the undercoating and leaves a metal surface that is in bead blasted condition.

[mpeastend]

Tom, thanks for weighing in. I'll have to do a search for the tool you spoke of, just for my info. I got a lot of the initial inspiration to start this project from poring over your project thread with envy. Your RSR really turned out spectacular! To give a proper 4th of July analogy...you lit the fuse, Matteo poured more gunpowder on it...and of course Porsche Doc was only too willing to provide more fireworks!
BTW, I'm curious...why didn't you go for the turbo trailing arms? Did you think it was wasted big money, high replacement cost if damaged, difficulty in getting setup right, losing rear seats if using the SRP camber boxes or something else? I was surprised to find some of the big name projects (like BBII, Matteo's, yours) not going with the Turbo arms. Am I making a mistake here? I thought they could only help and the downside would only be replacement cost.

[tom1394racing]

Relative to the Turbo vs Al vs steel trailing arms......

I was of the opinion that the reduction of unsprung weight was the key improvement and that the additional gains in suspension geometry for the turbo arms (the new mounting locations etc) would not be worth the time and effort to modify the tub. If you do a search on this subject in the 911 Tech Forum, you'll find lots of information that led me to go the Al trailing arm route.

My goal, with my RSR clone, was to have something that looked and felt like an original RSR on the track. The turbo trailing arms and the resultant tub mods did not do it for me.

[911teo]

My car will be much more of a bastard than Tom's so probably it would have been the perfect fit for the Turbo trailing arm.

I am no expert so please if I do not understand this correctly I'd love to learn.
I am under the impression that just looking at the arm itself the only diff between the Turbo and the Carrera arm is that the former is longer providing a wider track.

But if you fill the well with tires (in my case we are using a 315/35-17 tire) are you not nullifying the advantage of the longer arm? The tire (which is the only thing that matters) will sit in the same exact position in both configuration. The difference will be the offset. I guess that using the carrrera arm you'll need a bigger offset.

Or am I missing something here?

[Porsche Doc]

Originally posted by Rich76_911s
Wow that is really an impressive project you are taking on, good luck!

Don,
What is your preferred method for removing that undercarriage gunk? You a wire brush guy, grinder, heat and putty knife?

Rich

Hey Rich,
Sorry! For the delay, We have just finished 3 big projects and the holidays.
We just finished a 89 930 hotrod, 74 Carrera restoration and a installing a full engine management system on a 85 euro 930.

Yea! We had to use a hot knife,scraper and wire wheel to get most of it off.
The rest will come off at the blasters.
This is a bad job no matter how ya do it. Even with the Wurth machine.
It's the worst part of the job!! It is very labor intensive.
AND YES! I did cringe when Mike told me he wanted to remove it.
But thats OK, It's all about helping the customer.
We put all that we took off in a bucket and weighed it.
Less the bucket 72 lbs
But since we were not taking out the whole wiring harnice we couldn't dip it. Dipping the chassis gets it all off easy.
We should be getting the chassis back from the blasters soon now. Then as soon as we get back we will etch prime it.

[tom1394racing]

Originally posted by 911teo
My car will be much more of a bastard than Tom's so probably it would have been the perfect fit for the Turbo trailing arm.

I am no expert so please if I do not understand this correctly I'd love to learn.
I am under the impression that just looking at the arm itself the only diff between the Turbo and the Carrera arm is that the former is longer providing a wider track.

But if you fill the well with tires (in my case we are using a 315/35-17 tire) are you not nullifying the advantage of the longer arm? The tire (which is the only thing that matters) will sit in the same exact position in both configuration. The difference will be the offset. I guess that using the carrrera arm you'll need a bigger offset.

Or am I missing something here?

The major effect of the longer arm is to minimize the camber change during hard cornering. The greater the distance from the tire to the pivot point (pickup point) the lesser will be the camber change.

[Porsche]

Amazing!

[rrichar]

Mike P.

I didn't see it mentioned. Whose fiberglass parts are you using? Bumpers, tail, etc.