well finally started the install this morning

[YermanCars]

No, such thing.

$14k later w/ parts at cost and discount on labor.

[quattrorunner]

Ben,
Items that are made in china or taiwan or whatever are suspect, but always unbelievably cheep (I know, get what you pay for) but if it's simple like an intercooler and after inspecting for bad welds, if it looks good, it will be good and you saved over a thousand $'s! It is possable to piece together and save. Sometimes ebay cheep stuff works and sometimes not, but my guess is that these intercoolers will be a great buy. Good luck.

[Facey]

ben, what type of pressure drop are you expecting to see from the full bay intercooler...i always thought it was less then 1 psi drop, as though there is more interference, the air is expanding.....

anyways.... does the system really require the larger wastegate?

i can't wait for a kit to be offered....not that i'll be getting...i just know some people that will be :P

cheers
Nick

[quattrorunner]

Well, I don't deserve a car like that Yerman, very nice, what color is that?

[mb911]

who knows on the IC It may be a waste of money but I will check it out. they claim 1.5 psi drop again I will test it but it may be a viable soulution to buying 1300 IC. Remeber this I teach welding and metal fab so at the very least I can inspect for quality. now as far as metal quality I can only test over time because who knows what series this is! I would guess 6 series as it is cheap and rigid. it definatly has cast tanks. time will tell

as for waste gate No probably not required for this application but I want to try it so that when someone asks I have first hand experience...

[YermanCars]

Originally posted by quattrorunner
Well, I don't deserve a car like that Yerman, very nice, what color is that?

Kiln Red.

Like I said before, I am a dIYer just like you.

I remember when I first started my journey, I bought a welder, turbo(wrong one), 996tt headers and a whole bunch of other stuff.

I just wanted a little more power.

We'll 3 years later.

[quattrorunner]

OK, so here is a question that I almost don't want to ask. This could be screwed up in so many ways. I realize that a k26 from an audi 5000 t would bolt up to the 930 flange, will it line up, I mean the pressureized outlet going the right direction, and will it work ok without water in it's cooling jacket? Has this been done? I think it would work, at least till I find the right sized turbo for the right price(audi k26's are a dime a dozen and made to work on the 2.2 liter with lag)

[mb911]

sorry I am no help with that

[YermanCars]

Do what works, or what you've seen that works, unless your looking for ungodly hp and have to be different.

I would try to stay away, from the k series turbo's, it is not that there bad, they are just old tech.

If your looking for a stock replacment then call Imagineauto.

[Frank@AMS]

Just wanted to add a tad bit of insight here

lets say a 3.0 makes 170whp

he says he's making 300whp

Running 6psi of boost

Your telling me hes making about 21-22whp per pound of boost on a non-intercooled set up.

I find this hard to believe.

Also on intercoolers There are actually three things to understand when it comes to intercoolers. First is size. It CAN take a little bit more time for boost to pass through a larger IC. The second thing to consider is flow. With a better flowing IC, compressed air can pass thru the intercooler to your motor more quickly and with less pressure drop. Also, your turbo will not work as hard to make the boost. The third thing is its ablity to cool the intake charge. Cooler air makes more HP.

The superior design of the intercoolers/cores we use here at the shop over ebay intercoolers improves flow and cooling with no real sacraifices in spool/HP/or Pressure Drop.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents

[JeremyD]

Congrats on your 9.1 run Frank!

[Frank@AMS]

Thanks man, we actually just broke 1000 whp for the second time this month, we just made 1014 on our shop car, hopefully the car goes 8's this weekend.

[Tim Hancock]

Thankfully the average Joe that will be interested in a safe low boost inexpensive turbo kit (like the old BAE kit) won't give a rat's @ss whether or not he has 250 or 450 hp. He is likely to be very happy with even 240hp as opposed to his stock 170 or whatever.

Ben keep up the good work, if you keep it relatively cheap, simple and safe, no doubt you have alot of people wanting to go this route.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by Frank@AMS
Just wanted to add a tad bit of insight here

............

Just wanted to add my 2 cents

Just doesn't stop does it?

[quattrorunner]

He has a bit of and advantage over a run of the mill sc in that he has got efi to help with things. perhaps 300whp is high, but the 170whp is not accurate for his car. His car has higher baseline, like 190whp. So I think whatever the real #'s are, we are talking about a kick ass kit for not too much $. That is the bottom line. Where we take our cars from there is up to us. Onword and upword for money and power, just like all the regular 930 owners I would guess.

[Facey]

ben.


I really likes the low pressure turbos...(not pushing the performance and sacrficing reliablity)...but I still worried that a really cammed up n/a 2.8L might outlast a low pressure 3L...the temperature range is just so much higher....
and though the power delivery would be much differance...don't think the power would.

i'm wondering, if your low pressure turbos could get better then 930 power delievery, with moe reliablity....

what is the delivery like on your car...is it thw typical 930 all or nothing?


ps: as for the 1000hp evo.... obviously a pure drag car? that thing must need a rebuild so often.

[mb911]

Originally posted by Frank@AMS
Just wanted to add a tad bit of insight here

lets say a 3.0 makes 170whp

he says he's making 300whp

Running 6psi of boost

Your telling me hes making about 21-22whp per pound of boost on a non-intercooled set up.

I find this hard to believe.

Also on intercoolers There are actually three things to understand when it comes to intercoolers. First is size. It CAN take a little bit more time for boost to pass through a larger IC. The second thing to consider is flow. With a better flowing IC, compressed air can pass thru the intercooler to your motor more quickly and with less pressure drop. Also, your turbo will not work as hard to make the boost. The third thing is its ablity to cool the intake charge. Cooler air makes more HP.

The superior design of the intercoolers/cores we use here at the shop over ebay intercoolers improves flow and cooling with no real sacraifices in spool/HP/or Pressure Drop.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents

thank you for the insight. that what I had come with as well. What most don't understand is that I bought this cheapy to see what size I could work with. I actually have a very hi up in at modine and they will likly work with us in final development as Bill (modine) has a heavy back ground with can-am cars and his son is crew cheif on one of the 2 penske porsche teams so he is definatly a car guy and he is right in kenosha. His son was in my classes so Hopefully we can come up with a good inexpensive solution. And frank If you remeber you guys were so busy I could not get in for 6-12 weeks down there for tuning/dyno run and at this point I am not real comfortable even making an appointment anymore due to the lack of even respect .

Oh well regardless we will get concrete dyno runs shortly with paperwork so everybody can see. Regardless it is very fun and I am very happy with the end result with the exception of some banter!


This is what we ended up with a set up

3.0 81 sc engine
carrera intakes
mega squirt EFI with WB/ O2
T4/TO4E 55 trim
ssi /dansk equal length exchangers


and what ever the real Hp is is considerably more then the stock 180 ..

As to long term goal I think with the 6-8 psi levels the cars will last a long time but this depends on what you have for wear interenally .. I will let you know..

I will update this thread as we get more info

Thanks for all the suggestions everybody this project has been very satisfing

[patkeefe]

Originally posted by SLO-BOB


Just doesn't stop does it?

Why should it?. We love lively technical discussions!
I'm hoping Ben will post some data soon from his dyno runs. I personally find 300 HP to be a tad optimistic under the prevailing conditions Ben is running.

My stock 78 SC had 161 RWHP last year; baseline figures. I am hoping to have in the 225 RWHP range come Monday on my BAE install (providing my rebuild doesn't blow up!). I will be using water injection to keep the inlet temps down, as I don't have the time to fit up an intercooler before the next track date. Winter project. I have the lower compression stock pistons, but did put in DC-15 cams to try and get a bit better low end kick. We'll see how it all works out real soon.

Who said in this thread that this isn't rocket science? It's not. It's just plain old thermodynamics, heat transfer, fluid mechanics and basic electronics (oh, wait, that's what rocket science is).

Pat

[mb911]

Originally posted by patkeefe
Why should it?. We love lively technical discussions!
I'm hoping Ben will post some data soon from his dyno runs. I personally find 300 HP to be a tad optimistic under the prevailing conditions Ben is running.

My stock 78 SC had 161 RWHP last year; baseline figures. I am hoping to have in the 225 RWHP range come Monday on my BAE install (providing my rebuild doesn't blow up!). I will be using water injection to keep the inlet temps down, as I don't have the time to fit up an intercooler before the next track date. Winter project. I have the lower compression stock pistons, but did put in DC-15 cams to try and get a bit better low end kick. We'll see how it all works out real soon.

Who said in this thread that this isn't rocket science? It's not. It's just plain old thermodynamics, heat transfer, fluid mechanics and basic electronics (oh, wait, that's what rocket science is).

Pat

So you think 60 hp at the wheels gain out of your rayjay????? I know that thad and sammy are running 8 psi getting much better then that...


I see the sides are developing so soon This will be conter productive. as I said I will keep you all up to date with dyno papers for those that really care. Again our focus was established and surpased so if thats not good for most so be it. Pat I hope this works out for you

Pat [/B][/QUOTE]

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by patkeefe
Why should it?. We love lively technical discussions!

If by "lively" you mean condescending, counterproductive and insulting, then I guess whatever floats yer boat.

If by "technical" you mean using theory and opinion to shoot down general statements w/o providing help or solutions, again, as you wish.

Personally I would rather see constructive criticism and insights rather than thinly veiled attempts to undermine an effort by the competition.

I can see that Ben has the dignity to let this all pass. I'll follow his lead and stop with these final words-

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

-Theodore Roosevelt

Ben-keep up the good work.