Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 4.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Niceville Florida
Posts: 274
Improved Front Condensor Performance!

I bet half of you who opened this post thought I had the answer...no such luck! I'm looking for the holy grail on front a/c condensor performance improvement. The question is.. Has anyone successfully improved the performance of their front mounted 911 a/c condensor? I've done a search and seen lots of info on people asking the question but what I haven't found is someone who has achieved success. Specifically looking for info on anyone who may have found a way to better duct air to the condensor, found a way to get the condensor in the airflow of a moving car, found a better fan, or found a way to successfully speed up the fan. I've come to the realization that I'm at the point of being "condensor challenged" and would like to exhaust all innovative ideas on the stock condensor before I start spending more money on new replacement condensors. I have to believe that someone out there has figured out how to get more airflow to the condensor in it's stock or nearly stock location? Even if I eventually spring for one of the new serpentine front condensors I'm sure it would benefit from better airflow than the stock setup.

It's 93 degrees today and 74 percent humidity......

Help!

Last edited by Motorhead-45; 07-10-2006 at 03:03 PM..
Old 07-10-2006, 01:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DonMo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 613
Garage
Send a message via AIM to DonMo Send a message via Yahoo to DonMo
Not much you can do to that condenser. Try adding fans to the engine condenser or add a condenser in the driver side wheel well with a fan or underbelly condenser from Performance Air. Switch to ES-12a, add a subcooler (procooler). By the improved fan for your evaporator from www.mrjaguar.com. All will get you improvements. Try a search on es-12a or procooler. Many are getting high 30's from the vent.
__________________
DonMo
1984 911 Carrera Targa
3.2 liter, SSI's, Dansk 2 to 1, Steve Wong Chip
West Palm Beach, FL

"Go Hokies"
Old 07-10-2006, 04:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
MBruns for President
 
JeremyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 14,685
Garage
I plan on doing the high effeciency evaporater

http://www.rennaire.com/index-2.html

with the Kuel front condensor
http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/ac/911ac/index.html#Condensers
__________________
Current Whips: 1989 944S2 GC Coilovers, M030 Sways, Fikse - | The S2 is FOR SALE | - 2003 996 Twin Turbo - 36K miles - Lapis Blue/Grey
Past: 1974 IROC (3.6) , 1987 Cabriolet (3.4) , 1990 C2 Targa
Old 07-10-2006, 04:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jastx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 334
Garage
Quote:
Originally posted by JeremyD
I plan on doing the high effeciency evaporater

http://www.rennaire.com/index-2.html

with the Kuel front condensor
http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/ac/911ac/index.html#Condensers
All good stuff. Another option:

http://retroair.com/

Retroair is located near me, so I wound up using their products for an upgrade I did to my 930. It turned out very well.
__________________
John
2005 997 Carrera S -- Artic Silver/Sea Blue
Former friends: 1989 930 factory Slantnose /
1998 C4S Coupe / 1973.5 911T / 1976 914 2.0
Old 07-10-2006, 05:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Niceville Florida
Posts: 274
Thanks guys...all good information but before this thread becomes a testimonial for all the various good products out there I'd like to keep the discussion focused on improving airflow across the front condensor. There has to be some method of getting more airflow across that front condensor whether it be through better ducting, a better fan, possibly a small scoop fabricated to grab air just below the condensor, possibly notching the underside of the bumper where the condensor fan intake is, etc. That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for...specifically guys who have experimented and gotten results. I'm pretty sure there are gains to be had here and I just was hoping that others had already done the experimentation and found what works.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Last edited by Motorhead-45; 07-10-2006 at 05:50 PM..
Old 07-10-2006, 05:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Detached Member
 
Hugh R's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: southern California
Posts: 23,232
Do a Jim Sims subcooler instead of a procooler. If your making a/c lines it makes sense, $30 or $40 versus $300. I'm getting mid-30s on a 100 degree LA day on 134a
__________________
Hugh
Old 07-10-2006, 05:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,765
Focusing on your original query, I agree, Motorhead. I think the front condenser blower is not terribly efficient. I've also thought this area would be a good place to pick up some low-cost, improved performance. There were a couple past threads where guys were talking about using a marine bilge (is that redundant?) blower instead of the stock front condenser blower.

Another thread as I recall involved a guy who installed a second front condenser with computer fans blowing air over them in lieu of using a stock blower or blowers.

I'd like to see more cheap R&D applied to the front condenser/blower unit. It's the last shot before the evaporator.

Keeping it cool in Northern Virginia ...

Brian
Old 07-10-2006, 06:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Nabisco Premium Saltine
 
Mark Wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 10,971
People have been trying to cheaply modify the clunky 911 AC system for years.....and failing. Replcing old inefficient parts is the only way.
__________________
Warren's 73S "Annie"

99 996
Old 07-10-2006, 07:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,861
My 78 had factory air but was shipped without the front condenser. I have been slowly collecting parts so that when I re-install the A/C I have the option of installing the front condenser. Anyway, while searching the 78-83 PET for a list of parts I noticed that Porsche used a big honkin' fan assembly for the front condenser on some models [turbo, I think]. I don't have the PET with me but if you poke around you will see that they used a blower that appears to be the same as the rear heater blower. Not sure if it moved more air but it looks like it did.
I've wondered if more ducting and a pair of Spal fans would be more efficent at forcing air over the condenser.
__________________
Peace, Ron
www.ronorlando.net
78SC Targa 3.2 SS, 964 cams, CIS, SSI's,Dansk
Own a gun and you can rob a bank , own a bank and you can rob the world.

Last edited by Mysterytrain; 04-10-2007 at 01:44 PM..
Old 07-11-2006, 06:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Niceville Florida
Posts: 274
This is the factory condensor fan below. My car has this fan and it works. Close examination this afternoon looks like there is nowhere to go with a fan swap without getting shadetree which isn't something I want to do. I may go ahead and notch the underside of the bumper to aid with airflow to the fan intake at speed (similiar to what other do to aid with oilcooler airflow). It's a no-cost out of sight mod.

While talking to a friend today who has a supercharged intercooled C5 Vette which is cooling challenged, he showed me his "Big Mouth" which is a stainless duct that routes air from below the front lip of his spoiler up into the intercooler which is mounted in a similar fashion to the Porsche condensor. He said it helps quite a bit with temps in the intercooler. Taking this idea I think I'm going to build a cardboard template and my bud has offered to fab up a ?little? Big Mouth for my Porsche. I'll also experiment with trying to shim the condensor down at the back a bit to maximize airflow across the surfaces. More to follow!

Also decided to opt for the Rennaire new "Desert Duty" Front Condensor to help things along. Ordered it today.

More to follow!


Last edited by Motorhead-45; 07-11-2006 at 03:42 PM..
Old 07-11-2006, 03:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Throw it on the ground!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,213
Mororhead-45, What did you end up doing here? At last report you were going to change out your front ncondenser and do some experimental ductwork.

I was considering modifying the condenser coverplate to install one or two 4" spal fans blowing downward but there is no way to attempt without permanently removing the spare tire and I'm not ready to do that right now.
__________________
Mark
1987 911 Coupe
Granite Green Metallic
Happy Birthday to the Ground:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e4e2187156/andy-samberg-i-threw-it-on-the-ground
Old 04-10-2007, 11:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Niceville Florida
Posts: 274
I sold the car last month to a guy in Atlanta but last summer I did a complete Rennaire upgrade to include one of the Rennaire Desert Duty front condensors and was "satisfied" with the results without further work. I'm on the Gulf Coast where we get both high temps and high humidity. The car was also a Targa which really tranferred heat from the sun into the cockpit during the day at work. About $1500.00 in parts and a weekend for the install but it worked well.

Last edited by Motorhead-45; 04-10-2007 at 04:01 PM..
Old 04-10-2007, 01:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Arapahoe,NC
Posts: 99
Garage
On my 82SC original A/C did not work properly from the day one that is last 24 Years since this was my Sunday morning car and we lived in N.J, A/C was not that important, now that i live in Eastern N.C, I needed the A/C.
Last year i took the whole system out, I got a new Sanden Compressor, New Barrier hoses and fittings, new Dryer/Receiver, new Expansion valve , new O-Rings and flushed the front and rear Condensers plus the Evaporator with a product called Clean and Flush. I put the system together and pulled 29.9 in Hg vacuum twice (i live at about the sea level), the third time i left the system under vacuum all-night to make sure there were no leaks under vacuum (a pressure test would have been more assuring but i did not do it). I put 2 onces of PAG-100 oil into the Compressor and divided 2 more onces between Dryer and the Condensers. Charged the system with 24 onces of R134A. Since then i have been getting low to mid 30's out of the vents here in N.C summer. Besides the Barrier hoses, Dryer, Expansion valve and Compressor rest of the system is all stock.
So i do not know if any after market equipment is necessary, Summertime here in Eastern N.C we may have weeks at a time above 90 F weather.
FWIW this is my A/C story.

Cheers
__________________
Don

1982 Guards red 911SC

Last edited by ipacketeer; 04-10-2007 at 03:25 PM..
Old 04-10-2007, 03:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Barrpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tucson
Posts: 885
Here's a pic of the OE front condensor from my '86 next to Rennaire's desert duty. It is substanitially improved (not to mention cleaner) and I believe is available without buying the entire kit.
__________________
1986 Carrera Coupe
1999 Chevy Tahoe
1987 Chevy Blazer
1955 Chevy Apache 3100 Pickup

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
Old 04-10-2007, 03:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Niceville Florida
Posts: 274
Rennaire is now selling their wares thru Pelican...the Desert Duty condensor is available here for $249.00 by itself.

Last edited by Motorhead-45; 04-10-2007 at 04:02 PM..
Old 04-10-2007, 03:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Throw it on the ground!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,213
Sure is pretty, might need to get me one! Looks deeper that the OEM - is it?

Only my front condenser and evaporator are original, everything else has been replaced. Got to think these modern units are much more efficient.

Keeping my fingers crossed...recent condenser fan adds are getting me very low vent temps (e.g. sub 30's). Now waiting for 90+ temps just around the corner for the true test. If my temps don't hold up, evap and front condenser are next.

Last summer (my first with a 911 daily driver) was the longest 5 years of my life - I'm determined not to sweat my a$$ off again!
__________________
Mark
1987 911 Coupe
Granite Green Metallic
Happy Birthday to the Ground:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e4e2187156/andy-samberg-i-threw-it-on-the-ground
Old 04-10-2007, 04:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Niceville Florida
Posts: 274
The Desert Duty is twice as thick as the original.
Old 04-10-2007, 04:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Barrpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tucson
Posts: 885
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mthomas58
[B]Sure is pretty, might need to get me one! Looks deeper that the OEM - is it?

Yup, almost twice as thick. It's also serpentine which is more efficient than fin & tube. It takes a little work to bolt it up & it hangs a tad below the guard so it's a bit more exposed.
__________________
1986 Carrera Coupe
1999 Chevy Tahoe
1987 Chevy Blazer
1955 Chevy Apache 3100 Pickup

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
Old 04-10-2007, 04:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Niceville Florida
Posts: 274
Another simple enhancement that is often ignored is to simply increase the idle speed a bit for summer operations. You'll get more airflow across the rear condensor and raise the compressor speed at the same time. This also helps with the typical slight loss of RPM at idle from the increased drag of the compressor. This makes a difference, especially if you spend much time in traffic. During the summer I ran my idle at 950-1000rpm and then backed it back down in the fall.
Old 04-11-2007, 02:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Wer bremst verliert
 
JohnJL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,609
How about the "rubbermaid trick" set up on your condenser? Would that work?
__________________
2007 911 Turbo - Not a toy
1985 911 Cab - Wife's toy
1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy
1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 04-11-2007, 03:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:35 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.