You didn't get a PPI? So what "surprises" did you find after the fact?

[defcon65]

I must be living right - bought a 85 Carrera off ebay, no PPI, no test drive until I went to pick it up. Turned out to be better than advertised, I've yet to find anything really wrong with it, other than minor things like broken seat-back levers ($1.25 each from Pelican), a paint finish that revealed more minor defects upon washing and waxing, slightly dinged front and rear valances from parking curbs, AC that blows ambient air, headliner edge coming untucked at sunroof. That's about it. I've heard all these horror stories about the Carrera valve guides but the car doesn't smoke at all and just runs beautifully. I did a full tune-up and some suspension and steering upgrades but no repairs yet except a couple battery chargings due to really cold weather the first time and leaving the door ajar with an interior light on the second time.
With all the maintenance and inspection I've done on the car since buying it, I feel I would have uncovered at least one red herring, but nothing so far.

[trader220]

"Rust Free" generally means the rust comes with the car for free.

[Elombard]

No PPI and I know better but I am pretty savvy on cars.

Rusty front panel - would have been caught
Rusty rear parcel - not sure that would have been caught
No compression one cylinder - almost for sure would have been caught

I guess I should be mad but I did not pay too much and I have really enjoyed fixing it over the last five years.

[kwm]

Right there with ya livi....hit pelican for abuot 2 years bought and read all the books started to think I knew more than the pros (which now I kinda do on at least certain tpoics). Lost out on car after car for not acting quick enough and making the purchase. Told myself if these cars ar selling so fast (3 to7 days) then these buyers are not getting PPIs so I don't need one either. Found a car on an all Pcar lot and bought it same day. 4 days later on my way home from work after the first daily drive to work and it caught on fire on the interstate about 2 exists from my house. Fire dept was there whole 9 man. The PO have blue fuses in every spot that held fuses and the blower motor caught fire and the trunck carpet was next.

[Motorhead-45]

No PPI. As a matter of fact I had not even heard the term PPI until I joined this board about 1 month after the purchase. I bought my 1980SC Targa from an Acura dealer who also knew zilch about Porsches and I am still fixing/paying for years of unattended maintenance on a relatively low mileage (73,000) car. The list of fixes has been long and thank goodness the wallet has held out. It was a $12k purchase and I've probably put another $7500.00 into it fixing things! I know about 1000% more about the 911 then I did 9 months ago but........

My advice to anyone considering a 911 purchase.....GET A PPI!

[kwm]

motorhead...I dont know about you but fixing things has been a big part of this whole hobby/passion/fun of ownership experience or whatever you want to call it. Sure I could have gotten a 986 with a warrenty etc but how much fun it that? That whould have equalled the same ownership experience as all the Jap sports cars I had....turn key and car always starts, etc....which in those years I had no garage no extra money etc...so in that case key turn car start was a must. Now I just always try to have my Pcar ready for the Friday drive to work and weekends and if it isnt quite all back together then the pickup truck gets driven. At least where I live you cant beat a Pcar for originality b/c I never see anyone in 911s. I could count all the 911s I have seen in 5 years (minus Pcar events) on 2 hands.

[Motorhead-45]

KWM I couldn't agree with you more! 100% of what has been done was done in my garage with the exception of having the tires balanced! New cylinder studs, new clutch, rebuilt tranny, a/c overhaul, etc. It just ended up being more than I had planned on. Whomever eventually ends up with this car down the road in a few years will get a nicely sorted ride!

[anthony]

motorhead...I dont know about you but fixing things has been a big part of this whole hobby/passion/fun of ownership experience or whatever you want to call it.

Yeah, but that's not a reason to not get a PPI. Why would anyone want to pay full price and then find low psi in a cylinder or broken head studs? It's one thing to want a project but one should know ahead of time that they are buying a project.

[Elombard]

I had a PPI on one 911 that was long distance. They told me all about the worn carpet loose door panels, thickness of breakpads, on and on. It had a 2.7 motor.

I could not believe the results did not show a check for head studs and compression!!

Make sure you ask for specific things in the PPI, I could not have cared less about most of the other things. I only wanted to know about the motor and I ASSumed they would check that....this was a P car place too....amazing.

[kwm]

Oh I agree anthony...with my car it just so happends that the price was so good that from looking it over and driving it that I could clearly tell that even if some unseen issues were there I still should be fine. So with me the no PPI was a toss up b/c the seller already had another guy who was all over the car and very interested in it. I had seen and talked to the guy myself while he was there looking at this black SC and I was there looking at a grey Carerra that ended up being too far out of my price range. A PPI is important but I do think some people put way too much emphasis behind it. If I had been in the market for one of the cars with rust issues I may have a diff. opinion on this topic thought.

[Deschodt]

I think I can "win" that thread ;-)

Actually I got a phone PPI (PO said it was done last week for another buyer who backed out at the last minute - why repay, call the guy, right?)

Surprises?
- A rat cut in half and putrefied over the cooling fins of the engine
- A blown airbox + air leaks all over the CIS
- No brakes to speak of
- 3 more baby rats in the A/C in the front
- Best of all: 2 VIN#s on the car, found spliced in the middle
- Rust in the right rear window corner

Never ever buy long distance without seeing the car yourself ! ;-)

[cantdrv55]

Oh ****, you win!

[RoyB]

1987 Targa with 44,000 miles bought a year ago (6/05)

No PPI..............No issues. Car runs perfect!

[artplumber]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
....
- If you get a PPI, it's going to cost you $100-$200. This hurts your bargaining position with the seller, as you are dollar-invested in the purchase after the inspection is done. Also, if you perform a bunch of these, then you will empty your pocketbook really quick. It's a catch-22.

- A PPI should cover everything, and you should have a set of questions or areas that the mechanic will check specifically for you. Also make sure that the owner of the car is okay with this - I would not want my car torn into by a hack mechanic. Tearing down the top end of the engine is *not* acceptable as a PPI, from an owner's standpoint.
.....

-Wayne

Wayne, all depends how you look at it. If you end up buying a potential 15K engine rebuild without knowing it a few hundred means very little.

The best PPI I had done was by Marque Motors in Portland. They have an extensive form which goes through about everything you think you could want to know, and includes both examining and driving the car. Was not cheap (more than $200), but very complete.

Other places, you really wonder if the PPI actually got done when you meet the car....

[Lukesportsman]

Its a 72' so didn't pay for perfection nor get

My car stranded me within a few thousand miles (well I nursed her home in 3rd gear) after the throwout bearing failed after the retainers were installed "backwards". They put the thin portion on the working load side and it SURPRISINGLY pulled through. Shockingly stupid for an experienced PO.

[47silver]

my son saw the car on cars.com
we had lengthy emails with the owner.
i never owned a porsche and at the time did not want one but my son did so i thought that a car that might need a little work would be a good thing to do together.
i have a good ear for engines/mechanicals and took it for a run, it ran great and sounded superb.
i was unaware of this board or i would have probably passed on it since it was a mid year car.
fortunately all of the updates on the engine had been done by one of the prrior owners: carrera chain tensioners, carerra exhaust some work on the heads etc.. new clutch, new msds and all else was original
but unlucky for me it had bad fenders and rust, (i replaced with newere galvanized and had the body work fixed for a tidy sum) because i cannot do body work.
the interior needed new carpets.
the seats need repaired
the targa top needs redone
i drive it a lot and have fun with it, my wife and i use it a ton on weekends and for any errands.
if it was in great shape i would not have spent the money on it and if i had a ppi i may have been able to get a better deal, but i am happy with it as it runs great and gives me something to work on that i like.

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts


For older cars, get one at a place other than the dealer - they just don't know anything about the older cars anymore-Wayne

Saw my 911 E by pics only.

1. Dealer said the MFI was switched to Webers, turned out to be Zeniths, but a nice surprise, these carbs have performed beautifully and responsive.

2. Dealer said speedometer not working, turned out to be the odometer instead.

Thought there would be body issues. Turned out body solid, instead more mechanical issues, but all fixable by myself, through Wayne's books and this board. I use the car nearly everyday (as long as no snow weather).

[Normal]

Got a PPI- a post purchase inspection- even though I knew better. Another well read, researched purchaser who forgets everything they know when they see the car they have always wanted.

Wife bought it for me for my 40th birthday, so at least she was not emotionally attached and bargained hard on price. The owner at Sporthaus in Reno spent alot of time with me going over the car and even offered a PPI at their full service shop, but I thought I knew what I was getting.

After reading this thread, I was one of the lucky ones. But I wanted to do the fix up both because I enjoy it and it was a great way to get to know the car.

Strong engine- good compression- but tired interior, paint and undercarriage. Paid $8000 for an 82 911 sc targa with 68k mi.

Since I got it I have installed or replaced:
Carrera tensioners, 930 valve covers/ master cylinder/tie rods, replaced all rubber and bushings with new rubber/ poly u/ monoball cartridges, ball joints, elephant racing spring plates (poly/bronze), WM strut tower brace, sport billsteins, MSD / coil/ braided ignition set, K&N filter, weather stripping/seals, Brembo big red brakes/12.7" crossdrilled rotors/ss lines, 17" turbo twist Cup 3s, lowered/corner balanced, dash/carpet set/raised rear deck/ door pockets-panels, white guage faces, Rennline pedal set w/deadpedal, alternator, starter, clutch, H4 lights, euro lenses, carbon fiber ducktail.

To do:
Smart Racing torsion bars 22f and 29r, Smart Racing adustable sway bars/drop links, elephant racing finned oil lines, ruf yellowbird front and rear bumpers, front B&B cooler, carbon fiber hood, exhaust (time to figure out just what I want).

[si Banker]

I have done some stupid things in my life but buying a 1987 Carrera with out a ppi and with out seeing the car has to be at the top of the list.

I purchased the car based on it a persons description and a photo. My car had been a true garage queen when I purchased it in 11/2003 with only 17,500 miles. It had been traded in at a BMW dealership in Las Vegas and the used car sales manager gave me a description of it.

The car was delivered to my home about a week later. I can say that I know how if must feel to get a "mail order bride". I can say that my trust in my fellow man was confirmed. Everything I was told was the truth. I was dealing with a fellow Pelican. Without this group's support and information I would probably be driving a Vette.

As of now I have put 26,000 miles on it with out any problems until last month when the valve guides had to be replaced. While the engine was out I had the valve springs replaced with stiffer ones, the rod bolts replaced, cams changed and a new clutch.

It make driving to work fun thank you to all Pelicans

[cjbcpa]

What would the groups advice be in this situation:

I am looking at an '86 Coupe with under 30,000 miles. A PPI was doen by another prospective buyer and shared with me. I also was able to speak with the shop (P-dealer). Just minor issues, a slight leak in an oil return tube, recommended replacing belts due to age, recharge A/C. A leak-down test wasn't done.

The car is close enough that I can personally inspect and drive home. Based on extensive pictures, the car looks nearly new. Should I get my own independent PPI done, including a leak-down? Are there any other issues peculiar to a car that's 20 years old with such low mileage?

TIA,

CB