3.6 upgrade. Should I go Varioram?

[Ohio911]

Hey all!!
I am contemplating upgrading my frankensteind out 3.2 73t to a 3.6 over the winter. This would in a sense provide me with a 3.2 drive-train for my next project since I have a couple 915 trans-axles laying around to but up with the old 3.2. I believe The suspension is set to handle the power. I have the 930 suspension(smartracing camber setup) along with swayaway torsion bars adjustable weltmeister swaybars. koni sport adjustable shocks strut bar,and 18 inch kinesis supercup wheels with pirelli p-zeroes, etc.. and so on.


Is Varioram recommended? Is it that much different and harder to install then a non varioram? Is 8500.00(no core required) a good price for a 97 varioram with 36,000 miles on it.
How much more horsepower would I be purchasing for around lets say 12 grand? I already have a couple extra carerra coolers laying around and I think I have a front/nose cooler as well so the absence of the on engine cooler would not be much of a problem. Is my only option in a 73 basically the 915 tranny? Can others be retrofitted? I have been reading as much as I can on here about all the transplants that have been done.

I guess I am looking more for opinion based answers on the 3.6 in a 73t. And which way to go with it. Any comments on the difference in power from a 3.2 to a 3.6 (specifically vram)would be greatly appreciated . I have never had the opportunity to drive a 993 or 964 for that matter. I never would have thought I would want to upgrade the engine only one year after getting the 3.2 rolling. Looks like it will only get crazier from this point on!! Do they have any support groups out there to help deal with this type of 911 modding addiction?
Thanks

[Steve@Rennsport]

Installing a 3.6 V-ram is a GREAT upgrade as long as its done well,.... The only difference in installation is the need to install the vacuum chamber to run the Varioram intake system; a minor issue.

With a good exhaust system and performance software, you'll see somewhere around 300 HP.

I would NOT use the early '73 915 transmission due to its weaker R&P and differential. I'd use an SC or Carrera 915 and an LSD is mandatory to put all that torque to the ground.

Two oil coolers will be sufficient; one in the fender well and one up front.

Don't forget to upgrade the brakes commensurate with engine power. This is one thing that many people overlook,.....

[Craig 930 RS]

Hoooooboy, BTDT.
Brother.....I have seen the light! A 3.6 Varioram...

Had some clearance issue with the idle stabilizer up top.
Use Ti retainers/Aase springs/ECU software - all bought from Steve. 2405 lbs + 280 RWHP on a Dynojet 248C = F U N!

Hey Steve......you don't respond to my e-mails anymore?

[Bill Verburg]

I've done it w/ a 964 engine and a 993vram. Either way works fine.

[Ohio911]

steve,

I have a 23 mm master cylinder and 930 rear brakes with s4 calipers with adaptors in the front.


this should be more than ample right?

I have a 79 sc tranny that I would could have rebulit with the lsd. How much would you estimate a project like that costing?


Bill
since Both setups will work, is there any noticeable difference between the two lets say if they where both installed in the exactly same car? I am like starting from kindergarten up on this topic. Is there a diffeent feel to the two engines?

[Steve@Rennsport]

Nice brakes,......Yessir, those will work just dandy!

That SC tranny is just the ticket but rebuild cost estimates are really tough to offer until its disassembled and inspected. There are too many variables in transmission condition based on how its been treated.

I would:

Rebuild tranny as required
Install LSD
Install WEVO bearing retaining plate

Budget somewhere in the $ 4-4500 range with stock gear ratios.

V-ram 3.6's make about 20-25 lbs-ft more torque in the 2K-5K range than non-V-ram motors and you can really feel that, especially with good software.

[Bill Verburg]

this should be more than ample right?

right

is there any noticeable difference between the two lets say if they where both installed in the exactly same car?

The vram wil have more power and torque, but it's really moot point, both are more than adequate.

here is the 964 installed in my '76


the first exhaust used was SSI, way too restrictive


This is the second exhaust, B&B/Flowmaster it's fine but a little loud

ROW 915/67 w/ cooler replaced the mag 915/44




here is my 3.8RS vram in the same car


current config

[onefstm]

Where are you finding the Varioram 97 motor for $8,500. That seems like a great deal. Are the computer and harness included?

[Porsche84]

Be aware that the varioram with "lock block" will be a PITA and expensive to make work in an early car. A 964 3.6 engine will be easy to install and make you grin with the awesome power

[Craig 930 RS]

Also beware that a V-Ram does NOT add more power.
It only allows additional torque & some hp down low.

Weiner's drive block disabled & modified ECU was about $1,000

[Kevin Stewart]

I have the 93 3.6 its a great upgrade i hear the V-ram motors are great.


Brakes, wow it always amazes me on this subject, my stock sc brakes stop my 3.6 conversion fine, does a great job on the street and light autox, I can say it wouldnt matter what motor it had if i was races it alot i would upgrade the brakes, think about the vintage 911 class yep stock brakes, Kevin


I hope you enjoy it they are great runners

[Bill Verburg]

Also beware that a V-Ram does NOT add more power.

'95 OBD1 US non vram M64/06 272hp@6100 243.2lb-ft@5000
'96- OBD2 US vram M64/23 285hp@6100 250ft-lb@5250
'96- OBD1 RoW vram M64/21 285hp@6100 250ft-lb@5250

The vrams big edge is the added mid range torque which doesn't adequately come across w/ the above #s

OBD1 are easier to deal w/
non immobilizer are easier to deal w/

[Craig 930 RS]

Right on.
Clarification: Varioram by itself does not add more power.

[Ohio911]

I think I might be leaning towards a non v-ram engine at this point. Was the drive block integrated in a certain year or has it allways existed with the v-ram engine? If I go 3.6 non v-ram what year engine would be ideal? I think I have heard of problems with the early 90-91 engines? Thank you very much for all the info thus far.

[84toy]

I have been dealing with this now for months. I'm days away from installing a 95 3.6. Nobody brought up a major point in my opinion, hydraulic valves. For the street, it sure gets rid of a big maintenance pain. I chose a 95. First year of hydraulic valves, and last year of OBDI so it can be chipped without spending a $1000.00. It's a good year.....getting hard to find though

[Kroggers]

Subscribed for future use

[Joe Bob]

Depends on the trans, the brakes and the driver........

My 915 trans lasted 30K.......I had to do a WEVO intermediate plate support upgrade, a 2nd gear set replacement and now my CVs are grumbling.....not that I'm beyotching as the CVs and trans are 25+ years old and original.....but ya gots deal with it.

The powerplant can get away from me on occasion....it's not a forgiving platform. It's hard on stock brakes....lot's of "other" upgrades are involved. Go in realizing it's not yer Dad's Buick anymore....

Of course it makes my winky hard every time I turn the key...so it's a wash.....

[Bill Verburg]

As the 3.6 evolved from '89 to '98 it generally got better

Gen 1 964 M64/01 M64/02 '89-94, OBD1 55pin, barn door air meter, mech. lifters, no secondary oil filter, should be run w/ the harmonic balancer. 250hp@6100 228lb-ft@4800, early versions -~91 had head gasket issues US and ROW were the same

Gen 2 993 M64/05(RoW) M64/06(US) '94-95, hot wire mass air flow meter, bigger valves, redesigned bottom end, doesn't need a harmonic balancer, external secondary oil filter, hyd. lifters, US versions have SAI, all versions are OBD1 55 pin, 272hp@6100 243.2lb-ft@5000

Gen 3 as for gen 1 except
RoW M64/21 OBD1 55 pin, no SAI, vram, 285hp@6100 250lb-ft@5250

US M64/22 OBD2 88pin, SAI, vram, 285hp@6100 250lb-ft@5250

there were others for tip, turbo and RS, but the above are the main stream motors, any of them could have immobilizer(PIA)

[84Euro]

I have a 91 3.6 in a 84 heavy weight car. A few bolt ons and a little head work will definitely make the grin factor go up. I use the stock 915 tranny with respect to the power and have no problems, just watch out for the WRX's

[Kroggers]

Out of interest, is it really cheaper, better and easier to do a 3.6 transplant than to rework your 3.0 to higher HP?? There are a lot of 3.0 here that have been upgraded with turbos and 3.4 etc...

I always thought it would be a better option for me to upgrade my 3.0 rather than replace it with a 3.6 - am I wrong?