Woo Woo! Engine out

[preston_brown]

OK, got a few things done in the past couple of days. Less than I wanted, but I was very busy this weekend with my kids.

1. I measured the clutch, it is 9.5mm thick. I checked the wear limit for G50 discs; it is 8.5mm. They are 10.5mm +/- .3mm when new, so my clutch is about halfway gone. As a new clutch package is nearly $1000 and there are other things that need attention, I'm going to keep the current clutch and replace it in 25-50k more miles. It's taken 50k miles to get to this point, so...

2. Got the fuel injection system and intake manifolds off. That was much more of a pain than on a 356. Figures...







3. I removed the muffler. The straps were rusty and frozen even after days of soaking in penetrant -- cut them off. Getting it off the catalytic converter was an even worse pain. Of course, the nuts were all seized and rusted. I had to cut them off with a cutoff wheel. Total time was about an hour...






Continued in next message...

[preston_brown]

Once free, I quickly realized that the muffler may be on its last legs. you can clearly hear stuff rattling around inside it when you rotate it. I take it this means lots of rust and baffling falling apart inside? OK, if that means its done, suggestions on a new muffler that won't wake the neighbors but is more sporty sounding than stock. I was thinking Fabspeed but they are expensive.




4. Removed all the engine tin and the fan shroud and started degreasing them. lots of grease so the going wasn't that fast. I'm not going for the all-out powder paint glistening engine this time; that can wait for a real teardown. So I just am going to finish degreasing and hit the tin with some semi-gloss black paint for now.





5. I also took pictures of the long block, hopefully people can help identify where the leaks are. I'm already planning on replacing the usual suspects at the top front of the engine. Does it look like my pulley seal is leaking? Is the gunk on the cam covers most likely due to leaking gaskets, or where the oil lines enter?







Last, and overview of the mess in the garage right now. I'm going to clean up my tools and straighten up a bit tonight, this is way messier than I like to work.




-- Preston

[yelcab1]

1. A clean shop is a SAFE shop. Good to clean up during your work.
2. Your driver side oil line entering the chain tensioner is leaking. A new O-ring is probably all that is required.
3. Your main seal or the nose bearing O ring is leaking. It is hard to tell without taking the pulley off first.

Serious cleaning to do, but you have plenty of time.

[Jascha]

Preston,

“Undressing” your engine is a real treat but I do not see any of the labeled baggies for the loose nuts and bolts…are you relying on mental tabs?

[preston_brown]

Originally posted by Jascha
Preston,

“Undressing” your engine is a real treat but I do not see any of the labeled baggies for the loose nuts and bolts…are you relying on mental tabs?

No, you can't see it but I have each component in a labelled ziplock bag, and the components are in a storage box. There are some "piles" lying around with their requisite components that will get bagged tonight.

I've taken apart enough engines to know you can't simply "remember" where everything goes...

-- Preston

[preston_brown]

OK, update time.

Instead of pressure washing the motor, I used degreaser, a toothbrush, and paper towels, followed by a strategic low-pressure rinse. The risk of getting water where it isn't supposed to go is too great with the engine all undressed as it is right now. Here is how it currently looks...not totally pristine, but getting it a whole lot cleaner would require either 1) many many more hours of work (this took about 4), or 2) a complete teardown.



I also was able to crack loose the fill and drain plugs on the G50 transmission by using a 1/2" breaker bar with a pipe extension. I was afraid they were going to round out but I used a nice SK socket, and it wasn't a real problem. I'm glad, because I've read horror stories about drilling, easy-outs, etc. They were really really tight.

Next, I removed the flywheel. This was a piece of cake next to some 356 flywheels I've removed, which are held up by a single large bolt ("gland nut"). The triple-star bolts all came out quite easily with a 1/2" ratchet and the proper driver bit.

Now, I have to start assessing other potential leaks. Does this look like the front main (crankshaft) seal is leaking, or has all the oil just gotten in there from the leaks up top?



Degreased this area, it really wasn't too difficult. Then I laid out all the seals and things I've gotten and started to plan my attack. I'm still missing a few that are on order, quite a few things to address. Do you think it is necessary to open up the chain covers, or did people agree it was the oil lines into the covers themselves, and therefore no need to do the cover gaskets?



Last, if you read my thread about undoing the hard oil line from the flexible line it mates with, you know I tweaked it. Well, I have had a better look at the line now that it is more visible, and I think I tweaked it too much. I don't know if it is fixable, I think I have to replace it because it is pretty crimped. If people have ideas on how to fix this, let me know.



Thanks! At this rate, I think about 2 more weeks and it will be ready to go back in.

-- Preston

[toddu]

Quick question - the part at the top of the engine (breather??) that seems to leake on all engines... if oil could potentially get on the flywheel, what kind of noise would this make?

Unless I'm crazy, it seems if my car sits for a while, and then I try to back it out of the garage, it makes an odd noise. Can't quick explain. Not metal on metal, not quite slipping, not sure. If I drive it regularly, I don't seem to notice it. Maybe my imagination.

[randywebb]

I've got the hard line that goes under the motor. Email me if you want it.

[SP2]

Nice work Preston. You move really fast I think. I agree the leak on your driver's side chain cover is the little copper crush o-ring leaking. I would leave your chain covers alone. The intermediate shaft cover had alot of grease on it. I think that is where the rear leak is coming from. That is just a simple paper gasket. John Walker uses copper gasket spray on them before installing, so that's what I did. I see you bought a new flywheel seal, that big o-ring. I think that is what was leaking, because you don't have alot of grease above the seal. I forgot to lube mine when I put my new one back in. Too late now. Don't forget.

If you are worried about stuff getting into the engine, just cover the intake manifold holes with duct tape, and the distributor hole if you remove the dis. Then you can go to town on the hosing down.

Are you gonna remove the valve covers? Much easier to adjust the rockers while your engine is out.

[preston_brown]

Valve covers will come off and valves will be adjusted, definitely. I know how hard it is to contort and do the adjustment with the motor in the car, I've done it twice.

I'm thinking of trying the "new" valve adjustment procedure as well.

[wachuko]

Wow, nice work! I have the Engine Jack Adapter on my wish list as well. Glad to see that it is worthy addition to the tool box.

[TERRIBLEHONDO]

Preston I did my first drop a few months ago. I used the backside method to adjust the valves. If I do it again I think I will use the standard way. I wish I had your garage looks great good luck

[buttjoint]

Looks like your going to replace both front and rear seal. Save yourself a ton of grife and do your homework. Use the search function, Its your friend. Jim

[preston_brown]

OK, got a few more things done on the car this weekend.

First of all, I pressure washed the engine bay and underside of the car where the transmission lives. I figure it will be nicer working under the car when every time you stick your arm up or into it, it doesn't come back down covered in black smears. I carefully taped off all hoses, lines, and electrical connections before starting.

Before and after pictures follow:

[preston_brown]

I also replaced the front main (flywheel) seal, and the crush washers on either side of the oil line entering the left side cam tower. I tightened the oil line with a wrench until I felt it was pretty tight and starting to crush the washers; I couldn't find a torque spec anywhere.

The flywheel seal I carefully pried out with a pick and managed to not scratch up either the crank or the case. I tapped the new seal in after coating the outer edge in Hylomar non-hardening gasket goo. This has proven very good on various other similar locations on my 356 projects, so I hope it does the trick here too. I tapped it in until it was flush with the rim of the case with a wooden block and a hammer, going evenly all around. It was quite a tight fit, the Hylomar, which is quite tacky, probably made it a little slower to seat than normal.

One question: the seal was the "all black" version which says Porsche. In searching, people are adamant that the two-tone (viton) seals are the only way to go. I got this version when I ordered part # 999-113-426-41-M204. I ordered this a little over a year ago and have had it ever since waiting for this project...is there another version of the seal I should have ordered, or will I be OK? I'd almost rather pry out this new one, order a "better" seal, and do it right now rather than having to drop the engine right after I install it.

[syncroid]

Hi Preston, I've been following your thread here with interest. Good job once again! The all black flywheel seals are not good. The two tone viton ones are the way to go for sure. Wrightwood Racing is the best supplier of those that I am aware of. Even the all red flywheel seals are better then the black ones.

[preston_brown]

After extensive assurances from customer service here at Pelican Parts that they have had no complaints/returns of the black flywheel crank seal, I decided to keep it installed and not replace it. Pelican sells lots of these, and the message forum, while useful, can be somewhat anecdotal, so I'm going to give it a shot. We'll see what happens...

Yesterday, I replaced a bunch of the rings and gaskets. I started on the top of the motor by replacing the o-ring on the thermostat. The old one was black, and it hardly looked like it was doing a good job of sealing things up when I took a look at how little it stuck out past the metal groove it was seated in. When I removed it, the consistency of the o-ring was hard and brittle, like plastic. It broke apart when I was prying it off. Definitely a possible source of the leak on top. More so, in my opinion, than the oil pressure switch.





Next, I did the sealing ring on the oil pressure switch, and I also installed a new oil pressure switch. I coated the mating surface of the pressure switch where the red plastic is crimped into the metal housing with JB Weld. I have heard this is an extra assurance against possible leaks at the joint. Seems to make sense to me...


Last for the top, I took off the oil breather gasket and I replaced it. The gasket was old and stiff, and broke upon removal, but I don't think it was leaking. I put a very light coat of gaskacinch on the new seal before installing.



In the back of the motor, I replaced the o-ring on the #8 bearing cover. The old o-ring wasn't as hard as the one on the thermostat, but it was definitely more compressed than the new one, and if my eye says anything, it was leaking. I think this was the source of all the oil in the pulley area. Also, I replaced the sealing ring on the temperature sender located to the right side of the crank.






Last, I torqued on the freshly-cleaned oil cooler, now sealed with nice new green viton seals.



That just about does it for seals. The valve covers are already nice and dry -- I have silicone valve covers on there since the last valve job. However, the bad news is I realized I will have to remove my heat exchangers to undo the hard oil line that runs along the rear of the motor. You know, the one I crimped/crushed when I was undoing it from the flex line leading up to the oil cooler thermostat. So I will be putting the motor on an engine stand with my new engine stand collar/mount/yoke/whatever you want to call it, and getting the job done. Hopefully no broken exhaust studs, I just don't want to deal with that at this point. Lots of penetrating oil (I've heard that Wurth Rost Off is great because of the cooling effect) and heat from a torch, and hopefully it will be easy. I ordered a new muffler, an M+K, from Pelican. Looking into the "Exit" side of the cat, I think it might be on its last legs too -- I see the matrix material is starting to break down. No need for emissions this year on the car, they just started exempting pre OBD-II vehicles in North Carolina. Maybe time for a test pipe or pre-muffler while I'm at this point in the game.

[Larry_Ratcliff]

Originally posted by ghnat
Good job. It really is not that bad of a task - once everything is disconnected... Watch out for the dreaded while-you-are-in-there ...

SECOND+++++ the watch out for he while you are in there...

[mb911]

Originally posted by Larry Ratcliff
SECOND+++++ the watch out for he while you are in there...

I think its to late

[azasadny]

Great job, thanks for the pics!