Can a 3.0L handle a turbo?

[jbrinkley]

what a bunch of garbage

[dd74]

Originally posted by RarlyL8
This board should yeild better information than this. There is a lot of total BS on this thread concerning turbo transplants and kits.

Talk to the folks who have done each of these conversions - 3.0/3.2 turbo kits, 3.2, 3.6, 3.3T and get some factual data instead of opinions. Factual data being cost, what they did, what they did that they didn't have to do (such as add an engine management system or huge brakes), and what they use the car for. I would be totally confused if in the position of the poster at this point.

I don't think it's total B.S. Maybe aside of the engine management of a 3.6, the 3.6 seems to be a straightforward swap. I can't remember all the details, but in the end, one has a stock OEM engine in a stock lighter weight car, which nods toward higher performance and still has OEM reliability.

Secondly, with the 3.6, one just needs to source the engine and management, and I believe they're pretty much finished fishing for parts. Look at what Ben lists as the parts he needed for his turbo. Can all that be easily sourced?

Third, as to big brakes, etc., well any increase in power should be fortified with larger brakes and other modifications to deal with that increase.

[air-cool-me]

.

There is a lot of total BS on this thread concerning turbo transplants and kits.

no kidding

We have enough people on this BBS that have turbocharged a 3.0 or installed a 3.6...so if you haven't done either... then don't comment.

i enjoyed my aftermarket 3.0 turbo. My motor was already well on its way out but i threw it on anyway(poor leak-down). Sure it shortened its life a bit...

but it was less then $2000.

i already had a 3.0 and it transformed what i feel was an underpowered car. Later i put a 3.3 turbo in it. now THAT was fun.

never been in a 3.6 car. so cant comment on that.

[Larry_Ratcliff]

There is a way to build something on the cheap side that wont last. However, building a turbo engine that you can take out and drive hard without having to worry if it will blow up is not cheap. P&C alone will be almost 3K. My ealier post was based on taking into consideration a large intercooler, p&c, and lots of other things.

I see prices on here that dont seem very realistic. 200 for a 3.2 intake would be very cheap. Every one that I have seen sell go for around 500 - 650.

With the 3.6 you can just use the factory engine mgmt system with a harness that is available from Patrick Motorsports or build your own harness. The 3.6 conversion is a matter of a flywheel, exhaust, and that harness to make it work.

[Jack Olsen]

People get caught up in the bigger picture debate of where the better bang for the buck is, in terms of improving 911 performance. But that seems out of place in this thread, where there's a very specific history (unless I'm missing something).

In_style has no motor at all -- as in a roller with a big hole in the back. He'd found a 3.6 with the conversion parts available for 7K Canadian (6K US?). He was concerned about budget and how the additional weight and power of a 3.6 would mandate a lot of other expensive upgrades.

So from a bang for the buck perspective, you've got to figure in the cost of a 3.0 or 3.2, for starters. Because right now he doesn't have anything to put a turbocharger onto. Add to that the cost of a turbocharging system. And then someone explain to me how that's a less-than-US$6,000-solution -- that is also somehow less powerful and lighter than a 3.6 swap. I'm scratching my head. Yes, turbocharging can give you 3.6 power and 3.6 (and then some) weight. But those are the things that were scary for him in terms of brake and suspension upgrades -- so where does it get us?

Maybe I'm missing something. But in_style seemed to have been scared off by what most of us would consider a real bargain. And then the solution he asked about in this thread seemed to compound the things that scared him away from the bargain in the first place.

In my opinion, the problem wasn't so much with the solutions offered as with the odd logic behind the question.

[mb911]

Originally posted by Larry Ratcliff
There is a way to build something on the cheap side that wont last. However, building a turbo engine that you can take out and drive hard without having to worry if it will blow up is not cheap. P&C alone will be almost 3K. My ealier post was based on taking into consideration a large intercooler, p&c, and lots of other things.

I see prices on here that dont seem very realistic. 200 for a 3.2 intake would be very cheap. Every one that I have seen sell go for around 500 - 650.

With the 3.6 you can just use the factory engine mgmt system with a harness that is available from Patrick Motorsports or build your own harness. The 3.6 conversion is a matter of a flywheel, exhaust, and that harness to make it work.

(3.2 intake)off ebay no rails or injectors or TB good P&Cs not mahle though are about 2 gs. but most don't even switch p&c's look at protomotive they do a ton of conversions with stock intertnals. look at tsuter his has been turbocharged since the middles 80's with little trouble at all. sammy2g is the same. and a couple others on this board. in fact merv's and my car are really the only ones that have different internals

[mb911]

Originally posted by Jack Olsen
People get caught up in the bigger picture debate of where the better bang for the buck is, in terms of improving 911 performance. But that seems out of place in this thread, where there's a very specific history (unless I'm missing something).

In_style has no motor at all -- as in a roller with a big hole in the back. He'd found a 3.6 with the conversion parts available for 7K Canadian (6K US?). He was concerned about budget and how the additional weight and power of a 3.6 would mandate a lot of other expensive upgrades.

So from a bang for the buck perspective, you've got to figure in the cost of a 3.0 or 3.2, for starters. Because right now he doesn't have anything to put a turbocharger onto. Add to that the cost of a turbocharging system. And then someone explain to me how that's a less-than-US$6,000-solution -- that is also somehow less powerful and lighter than a 3.6 swap. I'm scratching my head. Yes, turbocharging can give you 3.6 power and 3.6 (and then some) weight. But those are the things that were scary for him in terms of brake and suspension upgrades -- so where does it get us?

Maybe I'm missing something. But in_style seemed to have been scared off by what most of us would consider a real bargain. And then the solution he asked about in this thread seemed to compound the things that scared him away from the bargain in the first place.

In my opinion, the problem wasn't so much with the solutions offered as with the odd logic behind the question.

agreed if there is a hole with nothing in it a 3.6 would probably be the way to go unless you could find a 930 engine ready to bolt in

[mb911]

oh and one other thing. is that we all like what we have and for specific reasons for me it was all about the project and doing all of it myself with suggestions from some experienced people so it really is to each there own.. The 3.6 is a great combo and I was unawre of the deal he had found. if I were in his shoes for that kind of money I would have jumped on it.. but the question was can a 3.0 handle a turbo and the answer is yes!!!!!

[dd74]

I think someone mentioned engine weight:

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Most of what you are loking for is in there but here it is again

kg lbs	models		Source		

182 400	 2.4L E, S, RS 		1972-73 Tech. Spec. book		

183 403	 2.4L T 		1972-73 Tech. Spec. book		

182 400 	2.7L 1974 		unknown		

200 440 	2.7L 1975-1977 		Aichle - 911 Engines		

190 419	78-83 930/09,19,10 78-81		78-81 & 82-83 Tech Spec. book		

200 441	78-83 930/03-08,13-17		78-81 & 82-83 Tech Spec. book		

190 462	 3.0L 1980-82		 Aichle - 911 Engines		

190 418 	3.0L SC w/ SSI & heat,w/o AC 		measured		

219 483	84-87 930/20,26		84-87 Tech Spec. book		

220 485	84-87 930/21,25		84-87 Tech Spec. book		

219 482	 3.2L 1987 - 1988 		Aichle - 911 Engines		

238 524	964 89-94 M64/01,02 ROW &US		964 Tech Spec. book

226 497	M64/03 RS		964 Tech Spec. book

275 605	M30/69  3.3L		964 Tech Spec. book

276 608	M64/50 3.6L		964 Tech Spec. book

232 510	M64/05-08		993 Tech Spec. book

221 487	M64/20 993RS v-ram w/o ZMS		993 Tech Spec. book

230 507	M64/20 993RS v-ram w/ ZMS		993 Tech Spec. book

[RarlyL8]

I guess for this application the most important fact is that no engine currently exists.

The next most important information would be what exactly is the application? Do you have the skills and tools to do a 3.6L transplant or will installation be farmed out? What is your budget? What are you going to use the car for? What is your driving style?

Some folks do not like turbos. They like the exhaust note of a N/A engine. That would eleminate any turbo or kit from the equasion.

A turbo kit does not seem to be a good idea given that no engine exists. If turbocharging is desired then a 930 engine is logical.

Given that a 3.6L engine and transplant kit are available at a good price that is the logical thing to do. If the budget does not include transmission, suspension, and brake upgrades then the power level needs to be kept low so that the car does not self destruct. A stock 3.6L or stock US 930 engine would be the most power I would put into a stock 911 chassis.

[in_style]

I have made up my mind!!!

I am going to be buying the 3.6 and doing the conversion. I thanks everyone for their opinions, and have read every post through. I will order the motor today, and keep everyone posted.

Thanks again.

[RarlyL8]

YEA!!
Good for you!

[ischmitz]

where is sammyg2 when you need him. He is running a bolt-on turbo kit on his engine and seems quite happy

[aigel]

Originally posted by shahram
Upgrade to Big reds: $2000

Where do you buy big reds for $2000?

George

[Larry_Ratcliff]

Originally posted by aigel
Where do you buy big reds for $2000?

George

Oh yea big reds for 2K sign me up!!! I was thinking about going with boxster brakes on my next project ... you can buy the calipers for all 4 corners for anywhere from 500 - 800 (ebay) and the conversion kit is somewhere around 500... so nice 4 piston calipers that are designed to stop a 3200 pound car for around a grand.

[Facey]

this thread did get OT mid way.

a 3L is bulit proof and can still be reliable with one of the low-boost turbo kits, however this would not net 3.6 power

a stock 3L making 3.6L power would have a shorter life.


your 3.6L is a DEAL. they are incredible engines. and will hurl your earlier 911 down the road.

most 911's have decent brakes, defiently good enough for street driving.

most stock 911's also come with somewhat soft suspension, however switching to larger torison bars, and blisten sports is not that expensive, i believe someoen has ALL of the required bits on sale he on the forum for 1400...i mean all of them.

7000+1400+1600misc = 10 000 and you have yourself a hot rodded 911..

i might have missed some of the conversion kit.... even then, if you come in under 20k for your build you added up a BUNCH of good deals

cheers
Nick

[dd74]

Was an external oil cooler mentioned? 3.6s require those.

[nyne11]

Check this link
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Porsche-911-Carrera-84-89-Turbo-Kit_W0QQitemZ250087826200QQihZ015QQcategoryZ102344 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[shahram]

Big reds:
I used front and rear 930 rotors: $500 on Ebay Germany
Front and Rear big red Calipers: $1000 also on Ebay
Set of pads: $100
Set of adapters: $300
Set of braided brake lines: $120
Adjustment of fron valance for 930 rotors: $250
Also something around $2300
You can find sometimes a whole Big red set including everything you need (except the adjustment of the front valance) for around $2200 to $2500 on Ebay (well in Germany, donno about US).

Oil Cooler: I used stock 993 front fender cooler: $250 used, fan included

Exhaust/Mufflers: I used stock 993 mufflers: came with engine, so did not need to pay for.

[AvonGil]

Originally posted by in_style
I have made up my mind!!!

I am going to be buying the 3.6

Thank goodness! At that price it would have been a mistake not to!