Targa Rear Window Removal -- Observations and Questions - Page 4

William Miller · 05-02-2007, 06:37 AM

BTW, anybody know what glycerine is? Something slippery?

1982911SCTarga · 05-02-2007, 06:39 AM

Glycerine in the window seal sense refers to a slippery soap solution, as opposed to a slippery slope solution.

Brian

1982911SCTarga · 05-02-2007, 06:43 AM

Bill, yep that's the exact page(s) from the Haynes. You're right, it gives a newcomer an idea of what has to happen on the install.

I showed that page to my son last night. His response: "They make it sound so easy, don't they?" Perceptive kid, and a darn good roping-in person.

Brian

William Miller · 05-02-2007, 06:47 AM

Good to have the little ones arround!

1982911SCTarga · 05-02-2007, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Good to have the little ones arround!

Very much so on a project like this, and my son's not so little anymore (he's a high-school freshman). Everything we do with my SC is training and practice for his some-day 911 "project."

At Hershey last Saturday we kept seeing Targa rear window glass for sale in the $40 to $50 range. We were both like, "Damn, we know those things wayyyyy too well." Too funny. When you don't need a nail you're surrounded by them.

Brian

1982911SCTarga · 05-02-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

BTW, where did you pick up the seal? Remember HBL told me the one I got from Pelican was the wrong seal. (I doubt it.)

Bill, I bought my replacement from a guy on Ebay a long time ago. It was still in the bag with a Porsche part number label on it, so I presume it was factory original. Even so, these things fit so bizzarely on the window (especially around the curved portion of the front of the rear window). You have to use tape to hold the front portion on during the install, and even then parts of the seal will want to walk off where they belong.

When you get your new seal, put a bunch of dishwashing soap and fill a bathtub with water and soak the seal in it. After a time, go around the entire seal with a scrub brush to clean the mold-release stuff off. I also used a popsicle stick to get into the various flanges and grooves.

Brian

William Miller · 05-02-2007, 07:26 AM

Good idea.
The one on the car came from Pelican. I have another one provided by the dealer so it should be straight from the Porsche supply chain.
I don't think there is any difference that I could see, but I'll inspect closer when I have them both in my hand. I think it was bassically an excuse from the installer that said he knew what he was doing, but really didn't.

I have a can of 3M glue cleaner. Did you ever try this stuff?

1982911SCTarga · 05-02-2007, 07:33 AM

Quote:

I have a can of 3M glue cleaner. Did you ever try this stuff?

Yep, it's excellent stuff, but open a window when you use it.

I think every seal will vary slightly because it looks to me like the two front corners are glued or vulcanized together by joining two sections cut at a 45-degree angle. Those joints don't line up precisely -- it's important to make sure when you're putting the seal on the window that you get those corners in nice and tight, and that the window is in it's correct, outermost flange position.

A phalanx of flanges ...

Brian

1982911SCTarga · 05-07-2007, 06:09 AM

Here are some additional close-the-loop tips on completing this project by refitting the Targa bar cover.

Before re-mounting the Targa bar cover, fit the new rear beading (this is the relatively inexpensive rubber/vinyl trim that goes around the rear of the cover).

Note also that there are plastic shims that go on the four mounting studs (two on each end) of the Targa bar cover. These shims keep the cover from digging into the body. I've only seen one other post on Pelican about the importance of these shims.

What has to happen when refitting the cover is this: The cover fits down into the gap between the frame/rollbar and the outer subtrim piece. However, you don't want to mount the cover without the right amount of shimming because the cover will drop in too far, making the beading difficult to correctly fit and causing the cover to dig into the body. Also, the plastic plug holes at the front of the Targa bar cover for the ski rack attachment won't be properly lined up.

While at Hershey I saw several poorly executed Targa bar cover re-fits. Some were cocked, with the cover partly riding on the outer trim. Others were too high and some too low.

I used nylon washers to re-shim mine since a couple of my existing shims were in sad shape. In stacking these washers, use some 3M Strip Calk(tm) to keep them in position as you go about mounting the cover. Trial fitting and patience is what it takes here.

It's all in the details.

Brian

amersbell · amersbell's Garage

OK, took the car to get the windshield in. They tore the rear seal in a couple of places so I brought it home. I decided to try myself using these ideas. Now, don't laugh, but the seal broke at one of the 90 degree turns. I am not sure that the windshield place did not do some damage to it. Is this corner glued together? It appears that it is either glued or fused somehow. Is it ruined or can it be fixed?

P.S. Would duck tape look too bad??????????

1982911SCTarga · 06-17-2007, 04:20 PM

The Targa rear window seals are glued at the 90-degree corners, but it's beyond any sort of off-the-shelf type of adhesive. It might even be vulcanized under heat. It would take a lot of abuse to tear the seal at those corners.

Buy a new seal and find a qualified installer -- someone who knows how to do old-school, roped-in, gasket-type window and windshield seals. Or do it yourself and know that it's done right. Good luck!

Brian

petrolblue83911 · 08-07-2007, 04:30 PM

Just curious,

out of sheer lazyness....can you remove the targa window seals or pry them up on the outer sides with the glass still installed so that when painting the car you can get in the channel a bit-but not have to go through the work of removing the whole window?

1982911SCTarga · 08-07-2007, 07:07 PM

You could, but if you're going so far as to repaint your car, you might as well go the extra mile and do it windows out.

If your painter and paint shop is good -- damn good -- they might be able to do a decent job with the seal and rear window on the car. But why at that stage?

If you ever go to a big swap meet, cruise the for-sale area and you'll see the good, the bad and the ugly of paint jobs and bodywork. My view, for a repaint of a Porsche, do it right with the windows out.

Brian

petrolblue83911 · 08-20-2007, 08:15 AM

Brian,

Thanks, -in my case, the window seals and trim are more or less perfect, and don't leak, so if I could avoid removing them I would prefer it.., but I couldnt tell if there was a way to remove the lower trim where the black metal strip runs along the edge of the rear sheet metal. if so, I would be happier to remove/replace that part if it saved the work of pulling the whole window out.

-Adam

1982911SCTarga · 08-20-2007, 08:31 AM

Hi, Adam. The metal rear Targa window sub-trim cannot be removed without removing the rear window and its seal and trim first. Like I said, I hope the person masking your car is very, very meticulous.

Brian

AFCuk · 08-20-2007, 11:04 AM

Hi
I just had my car resprayed and it was a all window out thing.
theres no way you can get away without removing it.
Get a pro to do it, they dont take long to do and you get a better finish.

(The metal rear Targa window sub-trim cannot be removed without removing the rear window and its seal and trim first)

There are 5 or so screws holding the trim in place, none of which you will undo
untill the seal is out.

Paul

William Miller · 05-23-2008, 05:41 AM

Coppied from the other thread and i will continue the saga here.

Brian, thanks!
I forgot about that whole thread since last year and it didn't come up earlier on my search results today.

I dug in a little deeper this evening.
Pulled the targa bar off and luckily the glue holding the seal on the front was still soft enough that I didn't ruin that seal.
Nuts underneath the fenders came off easy too.
With the cover off, I have a better view and understanding of how this works.

I suspect the glass guy at HBL installed the glass starting at the rear end instead of the front. As he pulled the front down the rear edge must have slipped down under the welt / flange. I tried to lift the rear edge up using two suction cups tied to the arms of my lift. Enough tension to raise the rear of the car. Something was going to brake so I stopped.

Tonight, I did the same trick on the front edge of the glass and without much tension at all, it began to release. I don't have it out all the way, but I know its going to work.
If lucky, I'll be able to get the wires sorted out and in the right places and rope it back in the right way.
I need to study your roping instructions again.
You mentioned the shop manual had directions, which manual were you looking in?
Was it an early manual?
Thanks for the link back to the other thread and I'll let you know if I need some help when the time comes.

1982911SCTarga · 05-23-2008, 05:55 AM

Bill, the manual instructions are in the early sections relating to body stuff as I recall. The instructions themselves are sparse, but what is there is valuable in terms of how you start. Let me know if you want a hand or if you have questions that we can talk about on the phone.

Brian

William Miller · 05-23-2008, 06:16 AM

Brian, I saw your response. We were writing at the same time.

I think my manual starts with the SC's in 1978 or so.
I'll have to go find the earlier version.
Packing tape seem like it will stick mich better than anything else, plus it doesn't strech much like duct tape. Did you have any issues getting it off? How about the residue?

Following your tip about cleaning the mould release, wiring etc. I could install the very clean seal on the glass and then run a strip of tape (1/2 of the width on the seal and 1/2 of the width on the glass) around the seal, but not covering the slot for the metal trim. I could run this strip both on the inside and outside of the glass to hold the rubber to the glass, maybe for the entire install. While installing the trim i'll use some spring loaded clamps as I go. Once the trim is in, will there be anything else recommended to hold it in place like another strip of packing tape?

I was not as lucky as I had hoped last night. HBL's glass subcontractor glued the seal to the glass and also filled between the seal and the body at the bottom rear edge. This made it impossible to remove without cutting and now I have a few hours work getting the glue/caulking material off the glass and the body.

After removal, I found that it does look like the glass went into the wrong grove in the seal. I think it was in the lower grove that was supposed to hold the wires. Thus I think your initial thoughts were correct.

Question on the wiring: There was short length (8-10") of black wire run along the edge of the glass,connectors on both ends. I assume it continues the circuit between rows on the glass. It may have been on both sides. When I removed the glass, this wire was run between the edge of the glass and the seal. It didn't poke thru the seal like the others. I'm not sure it is long enough to do that. Do you remember what yours was like?

I've read your initial roping setup a few times, but am still a little foggy on where each piece of rope starts and stops and where your started pulling from.

Another installation method I read:
After the seal and trim are firmly on the glass, insert the top front edge of the glass/seal onto the top of the targa bar pushing the glass forward with the welt sliding into the grove in the seal. (this is with the rear bottom edge of the glass slightly raised). Working from the top front center out twards the side, slowly lower the rear edge of the glass as you work the front edge of the seal onto the welt on the bar. Guide the front lower corners of the seal over the welt as you continue to lower the rear edge. (The guy mentioned that it would be like sliding your foot into a shoe.) All the while, pushing the glass firmly twards the targa bar and down. With the front edge, hopefully in the right place, start roping arround the lower part of the seal. This method may have come from the guy that used the strap, since if the front edge is in the correct place the strap helps hold the glass down and forward at the same time.
Think it will work?

William Miller · 05-23-2008, 06:19 AM

On another related Targa Topic: Front windsheild frame seal.
Dan @ cars inc. has the correct seal for the earlier Targa's.
I wrote him this morning, here is his response:

"Correct gasket $187.99 shipped fits 70- 89. Thank for asking

--
Dan Petchel 609 298 2277
Targa Top Restoration &
Vintage Parts Seller
Porsche Answer Man
Carsinc
5 Matthew Court Ste B
Bordentown NJ 08505"