Targa Rear Window Removal -- Observations and Questions

[1982911SCTarga]

Project update: I've completed the repainting of the Targa bar, trim pieces and the all-important "Targa" logos.

I've started trying to fit the new seal to the rear window and -- I'm being real polite here -- it's challenging. I need to step back on that and think a bit about how to get on with it.

Brian

[snbush67]

rut roe raggy..................I hope this works out, you might need beer (s).

[Mike_Lettrich]

Thanks for a great article. What type of paint did you use for the Targa bar? It looks fantastic.

[1982911SCTarga]

Hey, Mike.

Thanks. I bought a gravity-feed HVLP detail gun from Harbor Freight -- the model that comes with a control pressure regulator at the gun end. Man, does that thing nicely lay down paint. I used Rustoleum satin black thinned with paint thinner (mineral spirits). Super color match.

I went back to Harbor Freight this morning and bought a pair of window suction cup clamps. That makes handling the rear window so much easier for one person. I'm getting there -- slowly ...

Brian

[1982911SCTarga]

Woo-hoo! I got the seal on the window with the defroster wires hooked up. This is challenging because there are two flanges on the inside of the Targa rear window seal. The innermost flange is for the defroster wire runs. The second, outermost flange supports the windshield. You have to make cuts between the two for the defroster wires in the right places (study your old seal).



I made a couple of mistakes that made installing the seal more of a struggle than it should have been. My first mistake was that I tried to put the seal on the rear window while also taking care of the defroster wiring. A better approach is to get the seal on the window (with the defroster wires hooked up, but not inside their flange). After getting the seal on the window, you can then tuck the wires into their inner flange. (Seems like there's a phalanx of flanges with these window seals).

My second mistake was in not thoroughly cleaning the window flange of mold release. The mold release is more slippery than the rubber and makes the seal want to slide off as you go along on the installation. Use a paper or shop towel moistened with 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner and get into the window flange and clean out all of the mold release stuff. This exposes the fresh rubber of the seal and once it's correctly on the window, it will stay put.

Next up is installing the window trim around the lower portion. Yikes! (And my thumbs hurt just thinking about it). Still progress is being made. This job takes patience and plenty of thinking breaks.

Brian

[Ron.G]

Heres a trick to save your thumbs and it works great.

Take a long piece of wire, long enough to do one of the trim pieces and feed it into the slot were the trim goes.
Now position the trim in place over the slot. Slowly pull the wire out towards you while pushing down on the trim.
The wire will pull back the rubber and lay it in the trim piece were it belongs.
After you get going use some small plastic wood working clamps in the area you have already done to hood it in place. The clamps are great on the corners and for taking a breather also.

If you go slowly and have a helper it's pretty painless.
One to slowly pull the wire while you push the trim in.
Good luck!

[1982911SCTarga]

I had heard about the wire/string trim trick and I cannot see how it would work for the Porsche-style J-hook vertical pressed-in trim. It would work for a Spitfire (I think) where the trim catches a horizontal rubber seal flap. On our cars, however, that trim seal gap has to be opened waaaaay up to allow the trim to be inserted. That creates challenges, particularly the fact that when you open up the trim seal gap the seal wants to walk its way off the window.

Anyway, I've got the driver's side lower trim in place. Here's how I go about it. I tape the seal in place at several places all the way around the perimeter. You do this because when you hawk on the outer edge of the seal with pliers (cover the jaws with duct tape or similar), the seal inner flange will want to slip off the window (thus, you lose your earlier hard-won gains and you're potentially back to square one).

Using the protected-jaw pliers, work your way along milimeter by milimeter opening up the trim flange by tugging on the outer portion of the seal and working the trim in. It's slow but if the trim hasn't been monkeyed with it will go in.

It's Miller time.

Brian

[snbush67]

I am anticipating your success, great thread. Looking forward to the finished pics.

[1982911SCTarga]

Thanks, I'm working on the passenger-side trim right now. If I get the rest of it in this evening (installing the trim around the corners is real challenging), I'll flip the window over and tuck the defroster wires. Then I need to finish cleaning up around the pinch weld/body flange and get ready to rope, pull and brand this puppy in.

Brian

[1982911SCTarga]

Today's update: I've got the trim installation completed (including the center joiner and the two adjustable end pieces that butt to the Targa bar cover) -- all I can say is it's a bear. Don't undertake this type of project unless you've got lots of patience. I like to think I do, but I found myself stepping away and doing other things several times this week and today as I felt myself getting frustrated and starting to show symptoms of Tourette's.

On the trim installation, what worked best for me (especially around the corners) was to get about a packing-tape width of the trim section installed and then tape it down to hold it in place. To do this, you have to have a piece of tape kind of attached on one side of the window so it's ready to go when you need it. Or have a helper. Sometimes gentle taps with a rubber hammer helped realign the trim. Just go slowly and carefully.

After finishing the trim installation, I tucked the defroster wires. This worked great and went easily.

So here is some general ordering of things in how to prep the Targa rear window for reinstall:

-- Absolutely clean as much of the mold release off the new seal with 3M General Purpose Adhesive Remover or equivalent. This includes the trim and window flanges.

-- Drill holes for the defroster harness and cut notches in the new seal. Study your old seal for the right placements and be careful about orientation. Make sure left is left and right is right. I used small side-cutters (wire cutters) to make the notches. This worked well.

-- Connect the defroster wires to the window and put the new seal on the window, but don't worry about putting the wires in their respective flange pocket at this stage. Note that you'll have to tape the seal in various places to keep it in place as you go along.

-- Install the trim that goes around the lower portion of the window.

-- Flip the window over, so that you're working on the inside, and tuck the defroster wires.

This project has lots of highs and lows. Among the highs -- you're making your car better than a large percentage of older Porsches out there. Rubber seals are something I look at when I go to shows, swaps and other gatherings. Patina is one thing but cracked and aged rubber seals are a big separator in terms of upkeep and quality (at least to me). Plus, isn't it nice to know what's lurking under there and address it now rather than putting it off?

Anyway, patience is rewarded with a project like this, as is so many others like it with our cars. Stay with it, but be ready to recognize when you need to step back, relax and get a new 'tude on when you get back at it.

My hat is off to TRE's four-hour installer. That person must have years of experience.

Brian

[1982911SCTarga]

OK, moving along ... I spent the day cleaning the pinch-weld area on the Targa body. With that done, I installed new rubber beading on the lower trim pieces. This doesn't sound like much, but it's putzy work. These are the two trim pieces that mount to the Targa body with screws on the left and right and go about a quarter of the way around. There's a thin rubber gasket that goes beneath each of them.

I'm really happy with this part of the repair because the driver's side lower trim mentioned above was bent, dented and the paint had chipped. I carefully worked the dent out and repainted both pieces and they look great.

Here's a little Targa insight for you. My driver's side dented and chipped trim (which has bugged me since I bought the car) was caused because the trim ever-so-slightly overhangs the body at the door. A driver wearing bulky clothing (or a bulky driver, for that matter), exited the car and caught the trim and started taking it with him or her. This is something to be aware of about our cars.

I'm ready to start roping/installing the rear window. I was going to get started on that, but on reflection, I think the string I bought (1/4-inch cord) is too thick.

When I did the front windshield, I used a thinner diameter miniblind or venetian blind cord from a fabric store. I'll pick some of that up tomorrow.

Also, I'm pondering using two roping strings for the front side and top portions of the window. This is because the flange and the seal are meeting horizontally. As a result, I'm thinking two strings (one inside and one outside) would more easily open up the flange gasket.

Progress!

Brian

[vizail]

Briam
After removal of the rear window, did you noticed something like coulcking tape that runs along the entire lower side L shape frame . This beading is about 1/2" wide and it is like coulking tape and runs under each of the side trims ,the ones that have (4) phillips s/m screws and 2 trim nuts .
Did you replaced that beading? and if you did . Where did you find it?

Vic

[1982911SCTarga]

Vic,

Good questions. On mine, most of the non-hardening caulk was above the lower trim pieces. I've got 3M Automtive Bedding & Glazing Compound and 3M Strip-Calk, both of which are suitable for automotive windshield and backlight rubber-gasket installations. By that I mean, the bedding compound and strip-caulk are both non-hardening.

You apply the bedding compound with a caulk gun, laying a bead around the pinchweld outside "fence."

I also bought a bottle of CRL1716, which is the equivalent to 3M's Windo-Weld, which I might use to hold the seal on to the side and top portions of the windshield during the install. However, Windo-Weld, from what I've read is strong stuff and the windshield/backlight glass on a rubber gasket install needs to be allowed to float around somewhat. So if I use this, I'll use it cautiously.

Aircraft Spruce & Specialty carries the 3M Strip-Calk. The other items I found locally. I saw a place online that sells butyl tape in various widths (it was an autobody supply company). I think between my bedding compound the 3M Strip-Calk, I should be OK.

Brian

[vizail]

Brial
Thank's for thr Info. I've been searching around and I've come the same on a subsitude for the beading's in our 911's. Since I'm in a resto process I got the same products from 3M. Still, I have no idea where the rubber beading goes.
This host sels this item but I've not been able to find it in my rear Targa /w removal. Since we have the same Car, same year I was somewhat hopeful. Thank's anyways

Cordially

Vic

[1982911SCTarga]

Hey, Vic.

Sorry I wasn't paying attention to your first question. I bought the new beading for the lower trim from Pelican Parts. It's part No. 901-565-557-40. It's cheap, too, and you'll need two.

You have to love those "901" part numbers ... set the wayback machine to the early '60s!

Brian

[1982911SCTarga]

The rubber beading for the two lower trim pieces goes around the outside edge of the trim pieces. You'll figure it out when you get the new stuff.

You will need to notch the beading under the trim for the two speednut (what a word!) stubs on each lower trim piece at the front. Use a new razor blade or a fresh Exacto blade for this task. Don't notch the beading itself. Just cut an opening to allow for the speednut stubs.

You will also need to trim the last curved portion of the beading at the end. I used sharp scissors for that task.

Tack the beading in place with weatherstrip adhesive or equivalent.

Brian

[1982911SCTarga]

I'm getting close to where the rubber meets the pinch-weld flange. I've got the roping strings installed in the new window gasket (again, not a real quick task).

I've got one roping string going all the all way around that we'll pull from the inside starting at the rear bottom. At the point where the gasket turns 90 degrees to go up the side and across the top, we'll go to two strings. One will be pulled from the inside and the second from the outside.

Before we get to pulling the strings, however, I'll use the ratcheting tie-down trick to hopefully get the window close to its final position. We'll see ...

Brian

[vizail]

Brian
Beleive me ...it will be easyer to start at the top of the Window. A couple of friends came today and we try from the botom first and had a hell of time . Next we try the top and presto. Just one of the Boys pushing down at top and goin easy around one side and then the other.. no Clamping needed

Goood luck on yours

vic

[1982911SCTarga]

Vic, I think you're right. I did some dry fitting just to get a picture of what needs to happen when and it seems to me that roping the top portion first is the way to go.

That way, the entire window shifts forward (with some slapping and positioning) as the seal goes on to the front pinch-weld flange, which should allow the rear portion of the seal to make its move/drop into the correct position.

I can't see how that rear portion of the seal can drop remotely into position where it can be roped in without the front portion being in position first.

I've got to rearrange/re-do my roping strings now.

You really have to have been there done that to see how this plays out.

Brian

[Ron.G]

I used the wire tick on all the window trim on my 80 SC. works like a charm. Also did another friends SC windshield this way.