Do those with Konis actually adjust them?

munsonbw · 03-08-2007, 03:47 PM

I am trying to decide which shocks to put on my '81 Euro SC. I am planning 21/22 fronts and 28mm rears. My first thought was the tried and true Bilstein HD/Sport combo, but I like the idea of adjust-ability. I will be doing 80% street with DE and AX filling up the remaining time. I don't think the budget will allow for the externally adjustable rears (really would like to keep it at $500 for the car). Does just adjusting the fronts make for a more comfortable street ride without the rears? How long would it take to adjust the rears, I know this involves some level of disassembly.

Thanks,
Ben

Jon Merck · 03-08-2007, 03:53 PM

Mine are koni adjustables and I keep them set to the stiffest setting. The trouble to readjust isn't worth it, this is a street /DE car...

bivenator · 03-08-2007, 04:57 PM

I'm with Merck in not adjusting them. They are in stiffest mode at all times. Its not so bad that you can't tolerate.

wcc · 03-08-2007, 04:58 PM

I just picked up a set and was planning on setting them to the middle, but after reading the last couple of people's comments I'll probably set them to the stiffest setting. Good Thread, and perfect timing...

munsonbw · 03-08-2007, 05:12 PM

Thanks for the responses. To add to the discussion, any idea what the Koni reds at full stiff are like compared to the Bilstein HD/Sport combo? The price difference is within the budget and it would be nice to tune them to my tastes. So even though the consensus is that they aren't adjusted often (or at all), somehow it seems comforting to know that I can.

Now to figure out if 21 or 22 Tbars are a better match for the 28mm rear...

Jon Merck · 03-08-2007, 05:21 PM

I had the rears set to medium and stiffened them up for this last track day and it reduced the amount of "catch it" time when the rear end stepped out if that makes any sense...

KCinBR · KCinBR's Garage

I have Koni's all round, mine are adjustable with a little plastic knob and can adjust all 4 in about 5 min.

I rarley make any adjustments..............but I CAN!!!!

KCPSG · KCPSG's Garage

Same here.....got Koni's all around.....easy adjustment. Nice to have the ability to change it up some

911ctS · 03-08-2007, 06:53 PM

Im not sure what T-bars everyone is usinig but hopefully those who have their shocks adjusted on full FIRM are using the Koni reds. The sports (yellow ones) set on full FIRM would be way too stiff for stock spring rates and the car would almost certainly experience a degree of "jacking". You just dont want the shock doing the springs job.

Im a firm (no pun intended) believer in Koni shocks for their adjustability. However some of the "compress and adjust" types are just not worth the trouble of adjusting on a constant basis. Its all about the external knob.

Since your car is an SC I think the 22mm fronts are more of a match for the 28mm rears. Tire size front to rear and sway bar adjustability should also be taken into consideration on determining which ones you're going to use.

SLO-BOB · 03-08-2007, 08:02 PM

I'm also between the Bilstein HDs and the Koni knob adjustables. I really like the idea of dialing in ride. I've been doing a search on this topic here and on Rennlist. There are a number of people who use them and like setting them soft for street and firm for track. It sounds like a good idea.

I had the adjustable "knob-less" Konis on my longhood. That was a set it and forget it scenario for sure.

frankc · 03-08-2007, 10:11 PM

I am in the process of replacing my "compress and adjust" style Koni's with the externally adjustable knob type both front and rear. I never adjusted the old ones but plan to do so quit with the new ones for switching between street and DE like you said.

I was replacing my shocks anyway, but in my case since I have the OEM Koni struts, I really didn't have any other option for the fronts so this made the decision a bit easier (unless I wanted to replace the strut housing as well).

munsonbw · 03-09-2007, 04:05 AM

I am trying to avoid falling down the slippery slope, so my intentions were to upgrade bushings, Tbars, and shocks in the first go around. So, for the time being I will have 6/7x16 Fuchs with stock size tires and stock sways. Are 22mm fronts still the way to go?

I am noticing there is a huge price difference between the externally adjustable rears and the compress and adjust type. I think I can swing the external adjust fronts, but the backs would not. Looking at the suspension, it looks like you may be able to take off the lower shock bolt and compress them up and adjust. Has anyone done this?

Anyone have an opinion on which gives the softer ride (or potentially depending on adjustment), Koni Reds or Bilstein HD/Sport?

Jon Merck · 03-09-2007, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by munsonbw
I am trying to avoid falling down the slippery slope...

Don't fight it! It is better that way...

With mine set on firm the ride is great except on the rough back roads...you definitely feel every mark in the road. I have the compress and adjust reds all they way around...

Jon Merck · 03-09-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by munsonbw
Looking at the suspension, it looks like you may be able to take off the lower shock bolt and compress them up and adjust. Has anyone done this?

Yes, if you have a lift it is easier. You turn the shaft in the top of the strut. Compress it and slightly turn it you will feel it catch.

dfink · 03-09-2007, 04:42 AM

I have the external adjustable front and the button adjust on the rear. The rear is a pain and takes maybe 45 minutes cause I have to jack up the car and put jack stands yada yada yada. The front are turn the knob. There is a very noticable difference in ride between the adjustments. With 22-30 torsions and yellow koni shocks I currently have the rear full soft. I tried full hard and was a lumber wagon mid way was a stiff 4X4. I generally put the front at full hard on the track or auto-cross and am still playing with the rear. When they are set to full soft they are very tollerable even with the stiff torsions. Even on full soft I don't think I have any problem with the wheels not being controlled but it seems to help with the transitions of the car in the "S" curves.
Man I hope nobody takes this post out of context......

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

First off, not I'm not an expert. Hoping someone with more experience will point out any flaws in my "logic" (I'm using that term loosely!)

1. Suspensions are systems with springs and dampers as major players. (The sprung and unsprung masses is the other big player.)
2. Dampers/shocks are matched to the spring rate and weight of the car. Not unlike a tuned RLC circuit for you EE types.
3. Firming up the shocks makes the suspension seem like it has stiffer springs but in reality you've just made it less compressible. Now your tires are acting as springs because your shocks won't compress.

Does this make sense? Feel free to correct me, I won't be offended.

I've tightened the Konis up full tight in a emergency (my stock 944S2 was way too soft for Lime Rock) but it just seems like the wrong way to go about improving handling.

My admittedly unexpert opinion is that you should get yourself some Bilstiens, have them valved correctly and leave them alone.
-Chris

Jeff Higgins · 03-09-2007, 05:45 AM

It is pretty important to match spring rates with dampening rates, and to the weight of the car. They are all inter-related. The Konis are adjustable so that you can match them to your torsion bars, not so you can make adjustments between street and track driving. Cranking your Konis up to full stiff with stock torsion bars will not improve handling; it will more than likey degrade it instead.

By way of example, I installed Koni Specials a few years ago, keeping the stock torsion bars. I played with them between full soft and about midway on their adjustment range. I settled on full soft as providing the best balance on my 2200 lb, stock sprung car. Seveal months later, I installed 22/29 torsion bars, but kept the Konis at full soft. I had a very ill-handling beast that pushed like a snowplow coming out of corners under power, and refused to rotate in. So I pulled the struts and shocks and started playing with stiffer settings, winding up at 3/4 stiff. The car now handles quite well, rotating very quickly on corner entry and not pushing under power on exit. Full stiff was too stiff; it was a tail-happy little monster.

So play with the settings and drive it a little as you change them. There will be a "sweet spot" that works for your spring rates and car weight, with some leeway to suit your driving style. Once you find that spot, leave them alone until you change something else that warrants messing with them again.

JohnKo · 03-09-2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wcc
I just picked up a set and was planning on setting them to the middle, but after reading the last couple of people's comments I'll probably set them to the stiffest setting. Good Thread, and perfect timing...

A brief word of caution here. Some years ago I installed some new red Konis (admittedly not on a 911) and, since I was a world-class, sporty car driver stud, not knowing much about Konis, I made it a point to first adjust them to full stiff. The result was a car that rode like an ox cart. For a mainly street-driven car, and depending on the quality of the streets, you might want to start out where Koni sets them.

wcc · 03-09-2007, 05:59 AM

I bought a set for my 930 and after catching up with this thread again I'll probably do exactly what Jeff Higgins said. Set 'em, try 'em and adjust 'em to dial them in. TB are on the next to buy list along with new front shock inserts and sway bars. So it'll be a little while before I actually install them.

SLO-BOB · 03-09-2007, 06:15 AM

After a lot of research, I've decided this is over my head and best left to the pros. Carnewal offers a full "custom" Biulstein/H&R spring matched to adjustable sway bar package. Steve Weiner also has a system. I'm sure Pelican can do some matching too.

Who would have thought this would be so complicated??