Stranded. Car won't start (it doesn't turn over)...

[Emission]

Over the past few months, my 930 has decided every so often to not turn over. Usually, I just wait a minute or two before turning the key the second/third time and it finally cranks over and starts...

Today, I drive it about 15 miles and it ran flawlessly. When I got back in to go home... it wouldn't start. No matter how many times I tried.

The car is parked on a moderate hill, aiming upwards with the wheels properly curbed. I couldn't try to bump-start it as I can't move it.

Thankfully, I was able to borrow a car and get home.

Symptoms:

Turn the key to "postion 1" and the idiot lights on the dash illuminate, and you can hear the fuel pump.

Turn the key to "position 2" and there is a click followed by the idiot lights dimming a bit... and then silence.

I think it is the starter. Am I right?

If it is the starter, how hard is it to replace?

******************

Some additional information:

1986 Porsche 930
139,000 miles
3/4 tank of fuel
Good battery (always on a trickle charger)

I have all service records from 48,000 miles forward. The starter has never been replaced.

[equality72521]

Sounds like the starter to me or a short in the starting circuit (lights dim). Not sure how to replace it though, I've never done it on a Porsche.

[Gogar]

In a pinch, you might try the "bang on it with a hammer" approach. A couple taps with a hammer might free it up enough to get it to work a few times more.

Or wait until the engine is completely cold and see if it will turn over once the bits aren't warm and expanded any more.

[Grady Clay]

The first place I would look is the battery connections at the battery and ground strap.

Next down the line would be the cable at the starter and the chassis-to-transmission strap.

It is also possible to be an ignition switch internal issue or the connectors.

Yes, it can also be the starter but I would investigate the others first.

I have even seen these symptoms with the starter loose from the transmission (inconsistent grounding of the starter).

Best,
Grady

[Emission]

I will go back to the car in a few hours and check the electrical connections (and then probably call a tow truck).

How long are starters "supposed" to last?

[Grady Clay]

Originally posted by Emission
How long are starters "supposed" to last?

Good queston.

It depends ...
environmental conditions - best in SoCal and Colorado, worst in the rust belt.
Exposure to very high temperatures - worst in desert and 930s.
Solenoids don't like exposure to oil.
I suppose living along the beach isn't ideal for longivity.
Inactivity - nothing in a 911 likes to sit.

I suspect many starters last 3+ decades under ideal conditions.

2c

Best,
Grady

Please report what you find. Diagnose first, replace second only when necessary.
G.

[Emission]

Thanks guys.

I like the hammer idea... but what side is the starter located on (it's raining today, and I don't need to waste time crawling on the ground)?

- Mike

[Joe Bob]

Lights dimming? Battery is low or there's a bad connection. Check the terminals for corrosion....fuzz on the bolts is NOT a good thing.

Get a fluke on it and measure voltage at the battery posts...should be 12.5v, at the starter 12.3-12.5v.

[Emission]

Originally posted by mikez
Lights dimming? Battery is low or there's a bad connection. Check the terminals for corrosion....fuzz on the bolts is NOT a good thing.

Get a fluke on it and measure voltage at the battery posts...should be 12.5v, at the starter 12.3-12.5v.

The battery is completely clean, but I do have a kill switch that could have vibrated out a few turns... I will check that.

The voltage was 12.5v at the battery last time I checked (a few months ago). I will check again before I try to start it.

When I say the "idiot lights dimmed a bit" it wasn't acting like a dead battery. There was nothing - not even the starter moving a bit. It just seemed like there was a "click" from inside the dash... and then silence.

I am going over there now. I will report back in a couple hours.

(It doesn't rain all winter... and then it rains today. )

[john walker's workshop]

be careful not to break the plastic end of the solenoid while you're beating on it. bring another battery and jumper cables along.

[Joe Bob]

If you have full voltage at both locations...think ignition switch.

[Emission]

The car had been parked outside for nearly four hours by the time I got back to it. It was cool.

Before I did anything, I checked three things:

* I checked the voltage at the battery with an ammeter: 12.51v

* I checked the terminals on the battery: all good and solid connections.

* I checked my shut-off switch: tight and secure.

Then, I crawled in the car and turned it over... after the key hit "position 2" there was an unusual delay of about one second and then the car turned over and started immediately as if nothing was wrong.

I drove it home. Now it sits happy in my garage.

Do I assume it is the starter?

(I was going to call the tow truck and have it towed. Thanks to you guys, I went back with an ammeter, a hammer, and some gloves and gave it another shot. You saved me a tow!)

[chiplamb]

I agree on ignition switch or a bad terminal on same. Could also be the terminal on the small wire at the starter.

[Emission]

Originally posted by chiplamb
I agree on ignition switch or a bad terminal on same. Could also be the terminal on the small wire at the starter.

Ignition switch is suspect too. It feels kinda worn. How do I test it? It is only $60 for the electrical innards... do I just replace it?

[equality72521]

If it's sloppy and cheap it might be good insurance to replace it.

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by equality72521
If it's sloppy and cheap it might be good insurance to replace it.

There's a good joke in that line.....

[equality72521]

Originally posted by mikez
There's a good joke in that line.....

HAHA, I can't believe I didn't catch that.

[Joe Bob]

Yeah.....it's amazing how good they look at 2am after a long nite of slammimg Kamikazees.....woof.....

[Grady Clay]

Originally posted by Emission
Then, I crawled in the car and turned it over... after the key hit "position 2" there was an unusual delay of about one second and then the car turned over and started immediately as if nothing was wrong.

This is charecteristic of a sticky solenoid in the starter.
Also the fact it worked again after cooling.

Best,
Grady

[Emission]

Originally posted by Grady Clay
This is charecteristic of a sticky solenoid in the starter.
Also the fact it worked again after cooling.

Best,
Grady

That is what I am thinking.

Thinking back, the times it does this (delay or not start) is only when hot. It has never failed to start cold (in the garage).

Stupid question: Are the starter/solenoid the same (if I replace the starter, do I get a new solenoid)?