87 ssi conversion

[charleskieffner]

have already done searches(plural-multiple) and it seems there is a wide division of the masses on what route is best w/ssi's on an 87 3.2 carerra. i no longer have to go thru smog........EVER AGAIN!

my parameters are the following:

1) PCA showroom stock, exhaust changes are FREE ie. no points lost.

2) want to retain heat/defroster

3) want most HP gain for buck!

4) existing system is stock HE's, fabspeed bypass, single in/single out GHL stainless.

5) whose HE's are better? SSI or DANSK????(this im sure will start a fight but what the hell!)

6) dont mind cutting another slot for dual exhaust on RUF rear valance.

7) dont give a damn how loud it is. its a cab and wearing a helmet w/earplugs is no problem. loud is good around here, with all the harley RUBS riding around on street. or just crank the alpine system. there are some things i wont give up for the track.

8) know the guys personally at GHL so muffler purchase is pretty much a given. 2 into 1 or 2 into 2. keeps the local economy hopping.

9) thinking very serious about steve wongs chip. but would have to remove to stay w/in PCA showroom stock rules which states "NO CHIPS."

10) so what is the BEST route to go. at this point and for the last 2 years COST has only been a thought on gasoline and beer purchases. porsche parts purchases have gone out the window!!!

11) or leave the damn OEM exchangers and muffler alone and take the chip out when i go to the track.

12) HP gains????? what is real? w/ssi's or dansk? not butt-o-meter gains.

13) any other routes to explore?????

[mb911]

8) know the guys personally at GHL so muffler purchase is pretty much a given. 2 into 1 or 2 into 2. keeps the local economy hopping.


sorry can't answer now if you like give me a call sometime. I would be happy to talk with you about it.. I even know you won't buy one from me but still happy to help with my thoughts

262-364-7426

[charleskieffner]

hell im not in bed w/GHL!!!!!!

it all boils down to HP per BUCK! if your system eeeks out even 1 more hp i'll take it!

theres some other reasons i have gone the route i have:

1) showroom stock........theres an ending point with what you can do to car and how much money you can spend. and believe me i have spent a wad on whatever rules will allow w/out loss of points and upgrades.

2) i will play total hell here in az. ever reselling car w/out A/C.

3) there is nothing better than cruising after a fresh snow in the frozen winter wunderland of northern arizona w/the top down on a sunny day! therefore heat.

4) i know the entire drill on modified class racing from SCORE OFF ROAD RACING! he with the biggest BANK behind vehicle WINS!

5) dont fool yourself that showroom stock aint racing, nor are time trials a walk in the park, nor DE's! unless your the only one on the track..........there is the distinct possibility of hitting something or being HIT!

6) i am open to all suggestions regarding exhaust.

[rfuerst911sc]

I'm going to say you will gain 8-12 h.p. with SSI's and a muffler from M&K. The SSI's I believe are superior in quality to the Dansk and the M&K muffler is equal in quality as it is made from 321SS,the welds are perfect AND you will save weight with this package over stock.

[charleskieffner]

Originally posted by rfuerst911sc
I'm going to say you will gain 8-12 h.p. with SSI's and a muffler from M&K. The SSI's I believe are superior in quality to the Dansk and the M&K muffler is equal in quality as it is made from 321SS,the welds are perfect AND you will save weight with this package over stock.

with this combo will my heat be equal to, better, or less than oem?

what about ground to heat exchanger clearance??? any dimensional size difference over stock?

[jbrinkley]

heat will be like africa hot

clearance the same relative to ground

yes the exchanger part is bigger, (more heat)

[JP911]

I think you can gain more top end HP if you go for something with a larger diameter than SSIs, which are 1.5". To retain heat, you have 2 options: GHL headers with heater boxes or 993 heat exchangers with the flanges flipped on one side. I went the 993 HE route and the setup works well on my motor. The biggest challenge with this approach is the muffler. I have one made by M&K and a Triad, but I don't think M&K is building them any more (you may be able to buy a DIY kit from them). I like the GHL product, but when it came time to do the exhaust on my motor the funds were getting thin and I went for the more cost-effective 993 HEs.

[charleskieffner]

so the 1 5/8 tube dimension seems to be the answer for more ponies. didnt even realize GHL had offered heater boxes, just headers. thanks for the tip.

one post said 8-12 hp increase w/ssi's and m and k exhaust.

pelican or ghl (not sure whom) is claiming 30 hp increase! yikes i like those numbers if they can be verified. ghl wants 1600 bucks less muffler vs. ssi's are about 1006 bucks less muffler.

[mb911]

Remember this if you buy GHL you have to always use GHL stuff. I do not believe you could swap to a dansk if you did not like the sound etc. If in your shoes I would still go ssi. way higher quality in itself. Then you can use any muffler you want.

[charleskieffner]

sound isnt a real issue here. that seems to be a real concern of the street crowd. efficient and max HP are the real concerns. quality also. sure as hell dont want to play "header games" as i have in the past w/cheap ass V-8 headers. until doug thorley/tri-mil came into my life..........headers did not last off road for any reasonable amount of time. cant tell you how many times cracked headers and flanges and blown gaskets sent me into a tizzy.

as w/all decisions you kind of pidgeon hole yourself w/trying to get the best of all worlds. i have to have heat/defroster. i want the most HP and the best quality. cost isnt a concern. its a porsche, therefore always grab your ankles. i just dont want to do things twice nor regret a corp. decision.

since its a cab, street noise surrounds you w/top up or down. in comparison to a sunroof delete coupe, which are very quiet.

seems from everything i have read that 1 5/8" tube is the best you can get for efficiency.

its amazing reading all these threads and how everyone wants bigger motors. what we have found from stripping weight, going to DOT R michelins, corner balance,drilled rotors, turbo-tie rods, bushings,monoballs, camber plates, ss brake lines, new pads, all the suspension goodies allowed, safety stuff etc. that the car WAY outperforms most drivers including myself.

the other day in the twisties, ate a brand new vette(still had paper plates) and when we finally came to a stop light , he even commented to me how well it handled.

so improving on what porsche did, 20 years ago when it was new, can be done since technology has marched on.

[charleskieffner]

hey just got off phone w/brian at GHL. he states 30 hp increase for turbos not N/A cars. n/a cars about 13 more hp and builds torque thru entire rpm range.

heat equal to oem.

no clearance issues ie. bigger than stock or ssi's.

yes you must use ghl exhaust only.

"nominal hp" difference btwn single out or dual out exhaust.( dont really want to cut on my RUF valance).

decisions decisions??????????


is louder he stated.(not a big deal w/cab, its already loud)

lifetime warranty to original buyer.

[Jeff]

Chuck, with a 3.2 the best size is 1 3/4. The 1 5/8 is ideal for 3.0 and below.

Also, ask GHL if you can point the passenger side exhaust tip down on a 2 in/ 2 out and still clear your valance. Stealth, yet not giving any power up.

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally posted by charleskieffner
hey just got off phone w/brian at GHL. he states 30 hp increase for turbos not N/A cars. n/a cars about 13 more hp and builds torque thru entire rpm range.

heat equal to oem.

no clearance issues ie. bigger than stock or ssi's.

yes you must use ghl exhaust only.

"nominal hp" difference btwn single out or dual out exhaust.( dont really want to cut on my RUF valance).

decisions decisions??????????


is louder he stated.(not a big deal w/cab, its already loud)

lifetime warranty to original buyer.

My educated "guess" of 8-12 hp was pretty accurate. GHL stuff looks nice but as previously stated you can only use GHL muffler once you have commited. With M&K,Dansk,Monty and factory 2in1 out you have some options.

[charleskieffner]

jeff does anyone make 1 3/4" headers w/heater boxes? seems like 1 5/8 is all everyone offers.

have i missed a manufacturer?

[CharlesJones]

I've heard that 1 3/4" will lose you torque on an otherwise stock 3.2 engine, and is only suitable for 3.2s in a high state of tune or else for larger capacity engines. Maybe this is why manufacturers only make 1 5/8s with heater boxes.

[charleskieffner]

thank you charles. the quest continues.

jeff how this all started was i no longer have to do emissions. got VIN number on insurance companies letterhead(absolute must for MVD) and declared it collectible. got reg. tag last week.

and here we are full circle confused as hell.

patrick wants to sell me ssi's.

all i want is heat and most hp per buck.

but should my motor puke.......my evil plan was to build euro 3.2 or replace p&c's with 3.4's.

then i would be stuck(again) with parts for only a stock 3.2!

[Jeff]

Chuck, Not sure if anyone makes boxed headers in 1 3/4. Maybe Ben at M&K would make some. With 1 3/4 you are not lowering your torque #s.

As far as building a monster beast motor from your 3.2, you would be better served with a 3.6 transplant. The stock or slightly modified motors seem to out live the monster high strung variety.

[JeremyD]

GHL makes custom headers for 3.2 l cars (1 3/4) - they are essentially 3.6 -964 but with the heater boxes set up for 3.2 cars. They custom make them for Steve at rennsport - but they are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

As many have said - they give you a little more at the top end - you lose some slight grunt at the bottom. Since you are racing your car - this is probably what you want.

SSI are too small -

[charleskieffner]

hey thanks jeremy and jeff. some days it seems like a morass to swim thru!

"if i do this now...........how will it effect things later???"

now with the ghl's is it a big deal backdating sheet metal for heat?? or is it a 6 pak-12 pak-18 pak-30 pak hotel? or just buy a keg/steaks and have a header install/pool party sleep over?

seemed like w/the ssi's and dansk, the back date heat sheet metal was a kit w/add on cost to installation.

if i lost some low end no big deal. i dont drag race the thing. i have brand new CV's that i want to stay BRAND NEW! not splattered across some intersection racing a vette! i know better!

i eat them alive in the twisties when they least expect it! ie. the red BLUR in their rear view mirror suddenly becomes BIGGER! LOL!

[JeremyD]

Pretty sure the GHL will plug into your stock HE cross over tube. Call and ask them