Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by HarryD

On the other hand, my VW 1600 cc air cooled motor may not be adversely impacted.

Best.

Uhhhh,..its a flat tappet engine and just as impacted by this issue as your 911 is. Remember, fishing out a bad cam requires complete engine disassembly in that engine so its not a trivial issue.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

Uhhhh,..its a flat tappet engine and just as impacted by this issue as your 911 is. Remember, fishing out a bad cam requires complete engine disassembly in that engine so its not a trivial issue.

Steve:

Thanks for the correction. Oddly enough, I just use the same oil I have on hand for my 911 so it is not really a problem.

[WANNA930]

For what it is worth years ago i spoke with a Valvoline rep as I was using VR1 in a BBC. I asked about the so called zinc epidemic. The reps answer was basically that the issue with the zinc was due to break in oil additives loosing their zinc content and it really did not effect a broken in engine. As the rep explained yes, zinc was lessened but other additives were added.

It was also explained to me that a lot of the myth had to due with how camshafts were being mfg'd (remember the biggest users here are US built race type engines) and the combination of the 2 started creating issues.

Add to this Co seeing an opportunity and flooding the internet with this info to push their product. You see this all the time on the internet ad most are not aware that Co's pay and actually monitor the larger sites.

Where are all these failures? Is there a statistical number to show how many people on this site had a failure that can be directly related to low zinc. Not your cousins friends race engine builder but an actual person who drives their 911 regularly. Let's get a list and see how many are there.

I clearly understand the need for zinc in race engines and even some classics. What I challenge is the obsession people claim to have with it. Oh my engine builder says he sees plenty of failures. Ok how many? How many cars that don't in his or her same shop.

Ask any oil rep or cam Co and they will tell you the issue started with big block Chevy engines. They had a high rate of camshaft failures. That is faq and Crane Cams even started changing metallurgy in these cam blanks to alleviate it. From there it spread like wild fire.

Again the thousands of failures should easily be shown here if it was true. Post them up or???

Race engines are totally different animals.

[db_cooper]

If you want a big zinc number (1490ppm), a near 50w engine oil (100*c cSt@15.9), nice dose of Boron and don't mind using dino..use Delo 15w40LE. Petroleum Quality Institute of America

Rotella T6 5w40 has about 1200ppm zinc and is a synthetic. I used Rotella in my 911 and Vanagon for years and years without issues.

Both the Delo and Rotella probably have a HTHS number around 4.0, based on the certifications..good numbers for a 911.

[richardlw]

As requested, this link will give you the current specs for many of the CJ-4 oils.

Petroleum Quality Intitute of America

There a lot of things going on in oil formulations, and much more than just ZDDP. You will see that some formulations also contain Boron, which is a great EP additive and anti-oxidant. Some of the CI-4 oils maintain the lower levels of ZDDP, but increase the Calcium Sulfonate which traditionally is the detergent/dispersant, but has been found to be an excellent (although expensive) EP agent. (some of the more expensive greases now use Calcuim Sulfonate as their thickener, making it the only grease where the thickener does much of the EP).

The new (PC-11) Diesel specs will have the two categories as mentioned. Viscosity names are the same, but there will be stricter limits on the HTHS, being careful not to allow shearing out of grade, allowing better flowing oils but making sure there will be no shear.

The problem I anticipate with them is when people over-idle, or don't properly filter their fuel, allowing fuel dilution. Today's oils being thicker have more tolerance to abuse.

[doublebuffle]

Originally Posted by db_cooper

If you want a big zinc number (1490ppm), a near 50w engine oil (100*c cSt@15.9), nice dose of Boron and don't mind using dino..use Delo 15w40LE. Petroleum Quality Institute of America

Rotella T6 5w40 has about 1200ppm zinc and is a synthetic. I used Rotella in my 911 and Vanagon for years and years without issues.

Both the Delo and Rotella probably have a HTHS number around 4.0, based on the certifications..good numbers for a 911.

Here is a more recent test of the Delo; same source.

Petroleum Quality Institute of America

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by doublebuffle

Here is a more recent test of the Delo; same source.

Petroleum Quality Institute of America

This chart is from the same site - better to compare different brands.
Petroleum Quality Intitute of America

FWIW, JPQIA is funded by members of the petroleum industry. Not sure they're sufficiently independent to call out one of their sponsors.

Sherwood

[midnight911]

has someone done a chart something like this? this is after 45 min of quick scan of the last 20 pages of the thread and some quick google searches...i give up, while this is good enough for me for now.

[reddogmotrsprts]

Nice spreadsheet. Delvac 1300 is $12.47/gallon at Walmart -- less than $3.12/quart.

[labdag]

Just replaced vr1 20w50 with 10 quarts of Porsche Classic 10w60 in my 83 911sc last night. Not sure what to think. Oil seems really thin as compared with vr1. After warm up I can hear a little ticking noise. I don't think it's my imagination but I didnt hear that prior to oil change. Sine it was late I toolkit for a 10 free-way miles drive, oil pressure n temp was the same. Then drove it for 15mins in downtown heavy traffic,temp went up to third white line. It's now Sunday morning, I'll take it for a longer drive n report back.

[labdag]

This morning it took about 8 turns to start after sitting overnight. Prior to oil change it took 2 turns. Will check again in morning. Went for a 30mins drive at various rpm vs oil pressure. At 70mph, 5th gear, pressure at 4 bar. I'll upload video of driving. Im not sure what to think given the cost of PC oil, was it worth it......?

[Paulnsx]

Hey all!

I'm new to the forum and recently purchased an 88 911. I've been doing research on oils. Any experience/opinions with Kendall 20W-50? Amazon.com: Kendall 1057267 GT-1 High Performance SAE 20W-50 Motor Oil with Liquid Titanium - 1 Quart , (Case of 12): Automotive

I believe this is what the previous owner ran. Based on what I've read this seems like an appropriate oil for the car (dino oil, 20W-50 weight, good ZDDP content and SN rated)

Many thanks!

[azhodge]

Dino oil not the best choice for an 88. check out Driven Racing Oil, DT50, from joe gibbs racing.
15W50 Formulated specifically for High output air-cooled engines..
IE made for Porsche.

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by azhodge

Dino oil not the best choice for an 88. check out Driven Racing Oil, DT50, from joe gibbs racing.
15W50 Formulated specifically for High output air-cooled engines..
IE made for Porsche.

I've never seen a test where syn vs. dino showed any difference whatsoever in wear.
I change my oil in my 83 SC @ 3k generally so the extra cost for syn is simply a waste.....unless you are doing oil analysis and changing the syn at a higher mileage.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by azhodge

Dino oil not the best choice for an 88. check out Driven Racing Oil, DT50, from joe gibbs racing.
15W50 Formulated specifically for High output air-cooled engines..
IE made for Porsche.

That's pretty interesting, especially as they sell it in 12 quart cases...

[azhodge]

I purchased 10 qts from summit racing. Porsche's own oil for 3.0's and above is a full synthetic.

[DWeg1998]

At $13 a quart for the Gibbs, I'll stick with Valvoline VR-1 I stock up on when it goes on sale for $3 a quart and make sure I'm on schedule with oil changes.

[canamfan]

Why bother @ $13/qt. That's toooo much $$. I'll stick with Brad Penn @ 5.99/ltr. CAD

[dmwallace]

FWIW - Swepco 306 is still around and available in 24 qt. cases. The company has field reps around the US to call on industrial, transportation and government customers with large fleets and they keep some level of local inventory. When I need more oil I call the field rep in Raleigh, he meets me at a shopping center across from work and puts the oil in the trunk of my DD!

[Niche]

I currently use Mobil 1 V-twin on my 993 Ruf BTR. I just purchased a 89 911 with 85k miles. Would V-twin be a good choice for that car, as well?