Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[MrBonus]

I just ordered some of that fancy Joe Gibbs DT50 15W50.

[jlex]

Just ordered Shell Rotella T4 15W-40 for $12.97 per GALLON + free shipping from Amazon
Want to go a bit lighter on the lower number...

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

I'd kindly suggest talking with professional engine builders who have inspected all the internals after long-term use before making blanket statements.

I'm pretty sure Adias meant on a bang for the buck basis. No one's saying BP 20W50 is "bad" oil.

[gwinnch]

My apologies if this has already been posted from Lubes N Greases magazine.

I read it, but I didn't get a conclusion of any kind, other than it's a complicated issue-which is not news...can one of y'all find one?

2018_12 - December 2018 - LNG

[kyngfish]

Originally Posted by gwinnch

My apologies if this has already been posted from Lubes N Greases magazine.

I read it, but I didn't get a conclusion of any kind, other than it's a complicated issue-which is not news...can one of y'all find one?

2018_12 - December 2018 - LNG

Yeah - it's a non-article that is basically saying "we think ZDDP matters, but we aren't sure, maybe not, but maybe it does..."

I think in the end, the fact that no one has really done an apples to apples test means there isn't good data. Oil engineers think their new additives do the trick, but all the evidence is anecdotal.

Interesting argument here that thinner oils provide less wear protection. You could argue that cold, thinner oils circulate and coat more quickly...

[LIRS6]

I read about the last 20 pgs of posts. A lot to digest. Bottom-line question:

For my recent top end re-build 79 SC with cat delete I am thinking of using Delo 400 LE SAE 15-W40; any particular thoughts?

I live in the NE and drive only 45F+ temps. From what I have read, this has a higher viscosity than typical W40.

I am NOT trying to engage in a debate - just asking a q.

Thanks

Jason

[adias]

FWIW... I am now running on a 3.2 engine:

Liqui Moly Touring High Tech 20W50 (mineral oil)

and

Liqui Moly MoS2.

This oil is used in Germany in many of these cars, and my initial impressions are that the engine runs smoother and cooler. I have been using MoS2 for the last 2 years and being a solid lubricant I am convinced it is a good thing for cold starts and valve train wear.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by adias

FWIW... I am now running on a 3.2 engine:

Liqui Moly Touring High Tech 20W50 (mineral oil)

and

Liqui Moly MoS2.

This oil is used in Germany in many of these cars, and my initial impressions are that the engine runs smoother and cooler. I have been using MoS2 for the last 2 years and being a solid lubricant I am convinced it is a good thing for cold starts and valve train wear.

MoS2 is described as a solid compound (not a liquid) despite its low friction lubrication properties; also described as an oil additive. Not sure about the Liqui Moly, MoS2 product.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=NTpWXMe-KYiB0wKB7qKADQ&q=is+MoS2+a+liquid+lubricant%3F&oq=is+MoS2+a+liquid+lubricant%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i299l2.25300.27371..27827...0.0..0.105.822 .8j2....3..0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i10i299j33i10.JYGPje3OfoI

[996AE]

new 3.2 US Spec bottom up rebuild. Engine builder went with 20W50 Motul dino.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by LIRS6

I read about the last 20 pgs of posts. A lot to digest. Bottom-line question:

For my recent top end re-build 79 SC with cat delete I am thinking of using Delo 400 LE SAE 15-W40; any particular thoughts?

I live in the NE and drive only 45F+ temps. From what I have read, this has a higher viscosity than typical W40.

I am NOT trying to engage in a debate - just asking a q.

Thanks

Jason

Looks good to me. I used this oil for 20 plus years, no problems. Has appropriate zinc / phosphorus and is a conventional oil.

[adias]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

MoS2 is described as a solid compound (not a liquid) despite its low friction lubrication properties; also described as an oil additive. Not sure about the Liqui Moly, MoS2 product.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=NTpWXMe-KYiB0wKB7qKADQ&q=is+MoS2+a+liquid+lubricant%3F&oq=is+MoS2+a+liquid+lubricant%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i299l2.25300.27371..27827...0.0..0.105.822 .8j2....3..0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i10i299j33i10.JYGPje3OfoI

Yes, molybdenum is a solid lubricant, thus its value in coating moving parts, just like graphite...

[HarryD]

I have been having some conversations with other about alternative oils to try. As Adias notes, Liqui Moly has some products that may be pretty good.

The two that seem to make sense to me are: Liqui Moly Hi Tech (API SL - https://products.liqui-moly.com/oils/touring-high-tech-20w-50-1.html)

and

Liqui Moly Classic (API SE - https://products.liqui-moly.com/oils/classic-motoroil-sae-20w-50-hd.html)

[HarryD]

I was browsing another oil thread and found this post by Bill Verburg. Looks like some significant changes in our favored oils.

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

There have definitely been formulation changes in some oils over the last 10 yrs.

LN Engineering puts out an informative series of updates on this topic

here is the latest detailing changes in Brad Penn and VR1

LN is recommending the newest line of Driven oils, specifically Driven GP-1 20w-50 or 15w-40 for the aircooled cars

I see no change in M1 15w-50 and will continue to use it in my cars.

[sp_cs]

Remind me chaps, what is the safe limit for ZDDP on road cars?

Main reason to ask - Lucas Hot Rod 20w50 at 2100PPM ZDDP, and Gulf Classic 20w50 verified twice by their customer services as 2400PPM ZDDP

Both sound a bit high?

http://www.lucasoil.co.uk/images/documents/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf

http://gulfoilsupply.com.mt/PDS/files/Gulf%20Classic%20Range.pdf

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by sp_cs

Remind me chaps, what is the safe limit for ZDDP on road cars?

Main reason to ask - Lucas Hot Rod 20w50 at 2100PPM ZDDP, and Gulf Classic 20w50 verified twice by their customer services as 2400PPM ZDDP

Both sound a bit high?

http://www.lucasoil.co.uk/images/documents/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf

http://gulfoilsupply.com.mt/PDS/files/Gulf%20Classic%20Range.pdf

Way too high. 1200-1400 ppm max.

[sp_cs]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Way too high. 1200-1400 ppm max.

My thinking too, but both appear to be road/street car based oils

[911pcars]

To reiterate; it's not the volume of Zn and P, it's the base oil stock that's most important. Compare the oil from those PA oil fields vs the low-quality crude that comes out of the fracking (shale) fields.

S

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

To reiterate; it's not the volume of Zn and P, it's the base oil stock that's most important. Compare the oil from those PA oil fields vs the low-quality crude that comes out of the fracking (shale) fields.

S

Actually. The research about ZDDP did find that excessive ZDDP formed deposits that would break rings. Too much is as bad as not enough.

[winders]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Compare the oil from those PA oil fields vs the low-quality crude that comes out of the fracking (shale) fields.

Well, I wouldn't run anything but a full synthetic in my 911 so I don't have to worry about that choice.....

[HarryD]

Marc Bixen posted this in another thread. I thought I would share for posterity.

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

Pmax,
We used to use Kendall GT1 20w-50 exclusively on 93 and older, then about 10 years ago they added "liquid Titanium"???, and lowered the Z and P, so we switched to our old back up Valvoline Racing 20w-50 non-syn. Then Valvoline got pulled from the distributors for some "labling" issue, and the supply dried up. We had been running Total Quartz 9000 5w-40 in the newer water cooled cars with great results, and we heard great things about Total Racing 20w-50. So we switched to that after checking their Z and P and have had great results. We recommend every 5,000 or once a year since 911's hold such a large quantity.
I think you'd be fine with any of the top oils, Castrol GTX, Penn Grade, Valvoline Racing, Shell Rotella,etc. Just make sure it's high Zinc and Phosphorus, and 20w-50. Synthetic is not necessary until 993's. Stay away from Quaker State, Penzoil, or any "discount" brands. I'll run Mobil 1 15w-50 if the client likes, but not in anything older than a 3.2, or a fresh SC.