Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by db_cooper

What were the zinc and phosphorus numbers? Should be in the neighborhood of 1200ppm.

Yes the iron and copper were high. Use an HDEO (Rotella, Delvac, Kendall Super D) or Brad Penn if you are using an automotive oil with low Z+P. Do an oil analysis again in the next 4000 miles.

Those were all the numbers I got. Just trying to decide to buy the car, or use the numbers to significantly lower the price. Boxter.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by j911brick

Those were all the numbers I got. Just trying to decide to buy the car, or use the numbers to significantly lower the price. Boxter.

That POS just called me. He took out a title loan on the car and doesn't even have a title.

[db_cooper]

Find out what the payoff is and negotiate. The price just dropped. You may snag a good deal.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by db_cooper

Find out what the payoff is and negotiate. The price just dropped. You may snag a good deal.

He said it will take the loan company two weeks to get the title. I think he is BSing me. The dude is a real idiot and has no business owning a Porsche. Between that, the oil analysis, and the other issues with the car, I'm going to offer him significantly less than he is expecting.

[richardlw]

alu 5
chro 8
copper 34
iron 23
lead 4
tin 7
sil 15
potas 2
sodium 23
moly 163
water 0.1
oxidation 8.2
vis 13.6
gly ND
fuel <2%
tbn 6.2
nitration 4.4 soot 0.3

There is something wrong with that engine.

Every engine is different. I have lots of experiences with certain engines, but there are variations in materials.

.1% water might only be condensation from cold weather idling, but 23 ppm of sodium is high, even if it is an SN oil with sodium sulfonate detergent. Assuming this is air cooled, where is the sodium coming from? Sea coast air? washing the engine carelessly? I can only guess, but the number is high.

15 ppm of silicon is high unless it is an SN, then it might be "normal" with slightly high dust contamination

8 ppm of chrome should be closer to 1 for most engines, unless it has chrome rings, then maybe 2 would be ok

34 ppm of copper is way out of the ballpark. Without knowing a lot of details on that engine, that is a lot of piston pin wear or oil cooler corrosion (if it is copper)

4 ppm of lead and 7 of tin means the main and rod bearings were worn seriously during that period. Either a lot of starts with oil too thick or too much use of torque with an oil that sheared down. The viscosity is in the lower end of the xW-40 range. I didn't see where you identified the oil. It could be shearing to below that during acceleration.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by richardlw

There is something wrong with that engine.

Every engine is different. I have lots of experiences with certain engines, but there are variations in materials.

.1% water might only be condensation from cold weather idling, but 23 ppm of sodium is high, even if it is an SN oil with sodium sulfonate detergent. Assuming this is air cooled, where is the sodium coming from? Sea coast air? washing the engine carelessly? I can only guess, but the number is high.

15 ppm of silicon is high unless it is an SN, then it might be "normal" with slightly high dust contamination

8 ppm of chrome should be closer to 1 for most engines, unless it has chrome rings, then maybe 2 would be ok

34 ppm of copper is way out of the ballpark. Without knowing a lot of details on that engine, that is a lot of piston pin wear or oil cooler corrosion (if it is copper)

4 ppm of lead and 7 of tin means the main and rod bearings were worn seriously during that period. Either a lot of starts with oil too thick or too much use of torque with an oil that sheared down. The viscosity is in the lower end of the xW-40 range. I didn't see where you identified the oil. It could be shearing to below that during acceleration.

Thanks. its a Boxster motor.

[Flieger]

Any thoughts on this nano-enhanced oil? I realize that term is way overused.

I like the car they used to test it with!

Materials - Automotive Engineering International Online

[cnavarro]

We are currently testing the Miller's oils and we've actually switched over to using and selling their gear oils. They are awesome!

We're using the Joe Gibbs oils predominately now since they were willing to work with us to develop oils for us and they paid for the development and testing with SWRI. Flat 6 Innovations did the dyno and fleet testing for the product too.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

...
We're using the Joe Gibbs oils predominately now since they were willing to work with us to develop oils for us and they paid for the development and testing with SWRI. Flat 6 Innovations did the dyno and fleet testing for the product too.

Charles,

Just curious, are there any issues with Brad Penn product or is it just who works with you the best?

[cnavarro]

The Brad Penn works fine, but they aren't the best to work with. I wanted them to make a 15w50 and 5w40 years ago and they said there would be a min order and when I said no problem, they backtracked and said they wouldn't. It was because of people like me that Brad Penn became so popular and well known and they forget that. Joe Gibbs realized our contribution to the industry and really stepped up to challenge of making oils for our Porsches specifically. Even now, they are still working on further improving the formulation and I just got emails yesterday from their last batch of testing completed at Flat 6 Innovations.

[bkreigsr]

Charles, which flavor Joe GIbbs should we be looking at? DT-50?
thanks
Bill K

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Joe Gibbs realized our contribution to the industry and really stepped up to challenge of making oils for our Porsches specifically. Even now, they are still working on further improving the formulation and I just got emails yesterday from their last batch of testing completed at Flat 6 Innovations.

Lake Speed Jr. at JGR was quite responsive to my questions a few months ago re their DT50, particularly my questions in comparing it to Motul 300V 15W50.

I'm running the DT50 currently, although only with a few hundred miles on it so far.

Charles, do you or Jake Raby have numbers/analysis on the DT50 you could share?


Tim

[cnavarro]

The DT40 is for the newer water cooled cars and the DT50 is for the older air cooled ones. Although Joe Gibbs is recommending their XP series oils for track use, we use and recommend the DT oils for vehicles that see mixed street and DE use, just with more frequent oil and filter changes.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

The Brad Penn works fine, but they aren't the best to work with. I wanted them to make a 15w50 and 5w40 years ago and they said there would be a min order and when I said no problem, they backtracked and said they wouldn't. It was because of people like me that Brad Penn became so popular and well known and they forget that. Joe Gibbs realized our contribution to the industry and really stepped up to challenge of making oils for our Porsches specifically. Even now, they are still working on further improving the formulation and I just got emails yesterday from their last batch of testing completed at Flat 6 Innovations.

Makes sense. Thanks!

[Gawernator]

Anybody tried this? http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644

[HarryD]

Never used it. IMHO, it is hard to say if it is ok. The PDS sheet (http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/Edge_BLACK_PDS_Sept_2011.pdf) is silent on Zn/P levels and TBN.

Castrol in the past has been found to be acceptable but the additive package breaks down quickly in air cooled cars and the service life is not much more than 3,000 miles

[Gawernator]

I just recently put Castrol GTX High mileage 20-50w in my 944 due to this thread saying it had acceptable ZDDP. Plus, it was available locally. When you say the additives break down in air-cooled (911), is that to say it lasts better in water-cooled cars (944)? I'm a bit anxious now.

[wasserkuhl]

I am using a Valvoline oil XLD Hi-Vis 20W- 60 SG/CD .

The valvoline tech tells me its ZDDP is 1300 ppm.

Heat is an issue for me down under so hence the 20W 60!!

[333pg333]

Haven't scoped through this thread for a while but don't seem to see any mention of Miller's Oils out of the U.K. with Nano treatment??

Nanodrive - Low Friction Technology | Millers Oils

Also a thing that bugs me somewhat. The people that damn dino 20w/50 and only espouse e.g 5w/50 synth on the basis of a thinner oil at startup preventing all sorts of wear....if that were the case why didn't we see literally hundreds of thousands of cars with premature wear back when many of us only ran thicker Dino oils??

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by 333pg333

.if that were the case why didn't we see literally hundreds of thousands of cars with premature wear back when many of us only ran thicker Dino oils??

maybe we did. Most people don't own a car long enough to wear out the motor; and most people don't participate in a oil analysis program so they have no idea if they are doing damage to the motor.