ATF-Acetone mix: Bo-o-o-o-o-ogus!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

See this thread.

Penetrating Fluid effectiveness

I'm doing a ground-up restoration on a total piece of junk 95 4Runner (because I'm stoopid, that's why) and it is rustier than you think a 95 could possibly be...like most of the lower A-arms are eaten away. Today's job was to pull out the torsion bars (4 feet long) that connect mid-frame and then bolt onto the upper A-arms as well as pull the junk inner and outer tie rod ends out of the spacer.

Mixed up a 50-50 solution (far from it) of Autozone ATF fluid and Acetone. First, it doesn't mix just by pouring it together. Stir it, nope. Anyway, I poured it into my PB Blaster spritz can and decided I would just shake.

First I hit the steering parts, then went out and hit the A-arm bolts, torsion bar connection bolts, and rear torsion bar adjuster bolt (big). Soaked them heavily. note that the spacer tube has 2 long slots on both sides and both ends. the tie-rod ends screw in and are clamped. With so much open thread exposed in the slots allowing any rust spray to easily penetrate, I thought these would be a great test. I had visions of doing it by hand!

Went back in and prepped and POR15'd my new A-arms out of a CA salvage yard....total time 2hours.

Then went to work on the tie rods. nothing. absolutely nothing. Spritzed some more, nothing. MAPP torch...5 minutes later they are done.

Went outside to work on the truck. again, nothing. Cleaned the torsion bar to A-arm bolts with some break cleaner, hit them with PB Blaster...it worked. In the end, getting the bars out of the truck was a horrendous task. Unfortunately, I had to snap the rear adjust bolts to get the bars out, even a torch on the nuts wouldn't free them. It's a very bad design BTW with the torsion bars completely open to the elements.

End result: lots of swearing, very very sore and as they say on Mythbusters...BUSTED.

[GH85Carrera]

I am glad you tried it so I don't have to.

Thanks!

It must be like the myth I heard in high school about pouring sugar into a gas tank. It was supposed to get into the engine and caramelize and ruin the engine. The only problem with that is sugar will not dissolve in gas. It might clog your fuel filter but it would not hurt the engine.

[futuresoptions]

Next time you get the inkling to do this why don't you ditch the acetone and add diesel to the ATF to thin it out like your supposed too.....

[Shawn 357]

I generally stick to PB Blaster or if the bolt is really stuck I put break fluid on it and let it sit for a couple hours (I have had good results with this). I have always had pretty good luck with PB Blaster so I was surprised when I read the results of the test in the other thread.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by futuresoptions

Next time you get the inkling to do this why don't you ditch the acetone and add diesel to the ATF to thin it out like your supposed too.....

no more experiments for me! I see a few cans of Worth Rust Off in my future though.

[Rot 911]

Most of the rust penetrators seem to work well if you plan in advance and spray some on the stuck bolt or nut over the course of a week. Most people just spray it on and wait a few minutes thinking that will work.

[ljowdy]

It's not (Mythbusters) "busted" it's plausible. It could be that the acetone/ATF loosened up the bolts and regardless of the PB Blaster you used, they would have loosened anyway.

I find it hard to believe that the magazine would post erroneous results to a test but who knows???

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by ljowdy

It's not (Mythbusters) "busted" it's plausible. It could be that the acetone/ATF loosened up the bolts and regardless of the PB Blaster you used, they would have loosened anyway.

I find it hard to believe that the magazine would post erroneous results to a test but who knows???

the fact that the two liquids don't actually mix is busted to me.

2 hours of soaking into the threads, fully exposed threads, of the tie-rod coupler with no results whatsoever is busted to me.

We can put this one to bed.

[beepbeep]

Rust removing? Why not use electrolysis?

It works quite well and eats up rust only.

[beepbeep]

Natriumhydroxid, zinc offer anode and 12V charger. Connect minus pole to stuff that you need to clean up. You need to dry it up and paint it imediatly as the surface is clinically clean Ferrum which will start rusting pretty soon.

[beepbeep]

[cashflyer]

Electrolysis for rust removal?? Just coat it with molasses.

[DavErb]

Natriumhydroxid? (looks up in wikipedia) Aha! NaOH, good old Sodium Hydroxide on this side of the pond. . What concentration did you use and how much current was that battery charger? The part is connected to the negative pole via the mesh pictured at the bottom of your tank?

[Steve@Rennsport]

Remember now, Sodium Hydroxide, aka: Lye or Caustic Soda, will eat flesh just as well as fuming Nitric Acid so be VERY careful that you do not splash that on you or in your face.

Eye protection, neoprene gloves and apron are strongly recommended if you do this.

For me, media blasting with either Bicarbonate of Soda, walnut shells, or glass beads is FAR preferable to messing around with chemicals that can seriously burn you.

(speaking as an old chemistry major),...

[mb911]

for rust removal the best solution I have ever found was white vinegar in a tub and soak it for 3 days the parts come out looking like new then just bring them to the plater

[David E. Clark]

Originally Posted by mb911

for rust removal the best solution I have ever found was white vinegar in a tub and soak it for 3 days the parts come out looking like new then just bring them to the plater

Other sources I've read recommend mixing salt in the vinegar until no more will dissolve. This is supposed to form a dilute solution of hydrochloric acid which is supposed to strip off the rust but not harm the underlying metal. I haven't tried this. Does your method work without the salt. Anyone tried this method with/without salt?

[trconway]

There is a video on the electrolysis rust removal that says you should add sodium bicarbonate, like Arm & Hammer laundry boost, to the water, then add the electricity using a battery charger. Looked like it worked great. I bought the stuff needed just haven't tried it yet. The guy in the video was Kevin ???? he is on the Trucks show on cable.

[trconway]

Correction, sodium carbonate,

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/456478/rust_removal_tip/

[mb911]

Originally Posted by David E. Clark

Other sources I've read recommend mixing salt in the vinegar until no more will dissolve. This is supposed to form a dilute solution of hydrochloric acid which is supposed to strip off the rust but not harm the underlying metal. I haven't tried this. Does your method work without the salt. Anyone tried this method with/without salt?

Without salt I do this with stock hardware and then have it replated down at the local plater

[David E. Clark]

Originally Posted by mb911

Without salt I do this with stock hardware and then have it replated down at the local plater

Apparently adding the salt just makes the process work faster. Check out this posting.

As a chemist my first choice is hydrochloric acid as a solvent for rust ... Vinegar is about 5% acetic acid and also contains various organic stuff to provide some taste but which are not particularly essential to the derusting. ... The addition of sodium chloride to the vinegar provides the extra complexing power of the chloride to this mixture ... The chloride and/or the acetate ions form stable complexes with iron ions which aids in the dissolution of rust ...

Here's another site recommending the same:

Salt and vinegar for rust removal