Barrier hose vs non-barrier hose.

[rnln]

Please tell me if it is posible to know what type of hose I have by looking at it. Since I bought the car used, I wonder if the PO has already changed the hoses. Who knows?
Sorry, this is regarding AC hoses.
Thanks.

[DRACO A5OG]

Hey Ron,

Where is the pic?

[rnln]

You meant pics of the hoses? I don't have any. Is it posible to tell by looking at it? If so, I will take pics.

[mthomas58]

IIRC, newer style barrier hose may be stamped with the word "barrier" or other specification lettering. I recall seeing an old post with pics of these stampings but I can't seem to find it. I thought Jim Sims had posted the pics but I've come up with bupkis on multiple searches.

[khamul02]

I just changed mine out last summer. It seemed to me that the old hoses had a very slight cloth like feel to the exterior of the hose. The new type hose seem to me made of rubber or something like it. As unhelpful as this is, the newer hoses seem more modern. Hopefully Jim will speak up on this. A pic would really help though.

[tcar]

My old non-barrier hoses look like new rubber in the engine compartment. Dirty rubber under the car.

No 'cloth' look.

[Jim Sims]

The A/C questions are coming early this year.

All the refrigeration barrier hose I've dealt with (Goodyear, Dayco, Parker, etc.) has been marked periodically with either SAE J2064 or IMACA 320 (sometimes both) along it's length.

Other than the above noted marking, barrier and non-barrier A/C hose looks pretty much the same from the outside. If one looks at the end of the raw hose (no fitting crimped on) one can see the barrier layer in barrier hose - looks to be a type of nylon.

Bending too sharply or crushing the hose flat will damage the barrier layer. Also, using the wrong fitting crimping dies (such as hydraulic hose or fuel line dies) can cut through the barrier in the fitting area, causing a leak.

Some other clues: OEM hose with flare type (non-oring) fittings is almost certainly non-barrier. Also probably any A/C hose made and installed before 1990 or so is non-barrier.

[JFairman]

The Barrier hoses I've seen have a thinner outside diameter than the old origonal hoses for R12.
The non barrier hoses also have tiny pin holes in the outer rubber skin if you really look for them. The pin holes are there to let gas escape from the outer layer that leaks through from the inner layer. I guess thats so they don't balloon up.. that makes lots of sense doesn't it. . .

[mthomas58]

Its never too early for A/C questions!

Multi-layer barrier hose profile:

[3.2 CAB]

Jim Sims is spot on!! Hopefully you will be able to read the print on the hoses. As also stated, it does have an inside liner, and it is not as flexible as the non-barrier type hoses, this is because of that inner liner, it is not soft, and will kink or can be damaged, if not used correctly.

[Jim Sims]

"The barrier hoses I've seen have a thinner outside diameter than the old original hoses for R12."

These may be a variation of standard barrier hose known as reduced barrier hose; this type has a smaller OD and weighs less per foot. Standard A/C fittings and crimping dies do not work with reduced barrier hose. The correct fittings for reduced barrier fittings have a smaller ferrule. It is currently difficult to find reduced barrier fittings in small quantities and nearly impossible to locate reduced barrier flare-type fittings. However, one can buy reduced barrier hose fitting ferrules separately, remove the standard hose fitting ferrule and crimp on the reduced barrier hose ferrule provided one has a set of the reduced barrier hose crimping dies.

Clear as mud?

[JFairman]

The only barrier hoses I've seen are the premade ones that came in my rennaire kit. So I figured they were all like that.
Live and learn.

[rnln]

Thanks guys. I will double check the hoses for labels.

Can I have one more question? I see that the barrier hose has some "hard" layers. How about the non-barrier hose? Does it have any layers, or simply a rubber hose?

My story is that I did many recharge a year up to last summer, then I found the leak at the conversion lower pressure valve (right you plug in to recharge). Also, I found that the hose near the rear jack point was bulged up, the size is almost twice the normal hose size. I thought the pressure might damage the old hose. I graped it with my hand and felt that only the thin outer rubber layer is bulged up, the "core" (the immediate inner layer) is still in nomal size and is hard as rock.
Now I should either cut off the bad section and reconnect with a piece of new hose or some adapter kit, or replace the whole system? If my hoses are still non-barrier, it worth it to replace them all. If the hoses are already barrier hoses, then I'll be looking into repairing the only bulged area.
Again, thanks.

[3.2 CAB]

If the system was "charged" even the non-barrier hoses are "hard" but a bulge is NOT GOOD, in any type of hose. I would suggest that you do a repair splice, if you have enough hose length. At that time, you can also verify if it is barrier or not, by looking at the cut ends. Good luck!! Tony.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by rnln

Now I should either cut off the bad section and reconnect with a piece of new hose or some adapter kit, or replace the whole system? If my hoses are still non-barrier, it worth it to replace them all. If the hoses are already barrier hoses, then I'll be looking into repairing the only bulged area.
Again, thanks.

RNLN, at the risk of getting flamed, I spliced in a section of metal tubing in that same area and used hose clamps to secure the hose to barb fittings. Did this a couple of years ago when I ressurected my non-functioning AC in my '79 SC. The simple repair is still doing it's job.

[Jim Sims]

"The only barrier hoses I've seen are the premade ones that came in my rennaire kit. So I figured they were all like that.
Live and learn."

Yes, Rennaire's hose kits (at least the kits sold recently) are fabricated with reduced barrier hose.

[Eagledriver]

Personnally I think the old hoses work fine with R134. If they are leaking due to age then of course they should be repaired or replaced. I had to add 1 lb of R134 every 2 years with the old hoses. Don't think it's worth putting in new hoses for that. The leak could have been somewhere other than the hose anyway (like the leak you found).

-Andy

[rnln]

Tim Hancock,
I read your post regarding the hose repair and I was thinking about asking you more detail on how/where to get those parts if I have to go that route (if my hose are still the non-barrier). It sounds like I might to go that route anyway, old or new hoses.

Anyone has pic of the section of the non-barrier hose, like the above pic?

Thanks guys for suggestion.

Tim,
Update: I sent you a PM asking for detail on how you do your hose repair.
Thanks.

[3.2 CAB]

No picture, but you can use the one already posted. You may see an outer woven cover or you might not. It will generally be an outer layer, then an inner re-enforcement lining, then the actual inner surface, that will be just a soft, rubber looking inside liner. Hope this helps. Good luck!! Tony.

[tcar]

My non-barrier hose has the woven metal under the outer rubber layer.