Engine Pad - Installed!

[RWebb]

contact Wayne and complain

[84porsche9113.2]

Originally Posted by RWebb

contact Wayne and complain

Ok, is it just my imagination here, or are you two guys in the minority in thinking that this is more than just a engine "sound' pad?

I think there would be more work involved in contacting just Wayne. From my experience, just about every single porsche catalog (in addition to ebay) probably references it (as well as describes it) as a sound pad and not a heat pad.

Automotion's name for it is an "Engine Compartment Soundproofing" and their description states:

"Durable foam and rubber construction effectively muffles engine noise. Kit includes ample material to cover engine compartment. 1965-69 cars require two kits for full coverage."

http://www.***************/productpage.aspx?cid=4&sid=181&pid=102197

Again, NOTHING about heat. So you might not go by just ebay, but what about all THREE including pelican parts AND automotion?

By the way, I haven't found any catalog that called it an "engine french toast stick" yet....

[KTL]

I think people need to consider the difference between the engine bay pad and the pad behind the rear seat and deck area in the cabin.

engine- not so dense foam and semi-thick rubber backing

cabin- very heavy woolen-like padding and very thick rubber backing

Now you tell me which one is doing the insulating and/or soundproofing. I think the engine bay piece is for show compared to the stuff in the cabin.

[RWebb]

I will bet my PhD that the foam pad significantly retards heat transfer thru the firewall.

I have no control over what others think -- at least not YET. I am, however, looking into certain ray gun technologies in the underground laboratory.

[84porsche9113.2]

Originally Posted by KTL

I think the engine bay piece is for show compared to the stuff in the cabin.

I would agree with this assesment somewhat, although I do think that it does make "some" sound difference as opposed to no engine pad at all, as others have noticed.

The problem again, is the durablity issue from my point of view. Because the one in the compartment is next to the heat of the engine, it does get brittle and does fail and hence, needs to be replaced. Whereas the one on the cabin never needs to be (you don't see parts stores selling that pad, do you?)

So the question remains if we also have a thick sound pad in the cabin, do we really need the one in the engine if it is not very durable and keeps falling off every 3-4 years? That's why I left mine out...

[rusnak]

yeah Kevin, our 3.2s have many layers (stock) of soundproofing, including a rubberized layer on the rear shelf, all over sheetmetal. In my case a rear compartment made of thin wood and carpet on top of all that.

The amount of sound deadening by the foam piece is minimal in any case, and in my case not meaningful at this point because it's not even there.

My question is: I am assuming first that it does provide some heat management and prevent some heat intrusion into the cabin, so is there something else that can also prevent heat transfer, and not be too heavy, and not too expensive (to borrow criteria from Randy). Short of aluminum foil ( I don't want to set my engine on fire) I think we can borrow technology from the airplane guys to find a better material.

Just for you, mr 84Porsh, I'm going to call mine a French Toast Stick

[84porsche9113.2]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I will bet my PhD that the foam pad significantly retards heat transfer thru the firewall.

again, i never said it doesn't retard heat. it probably does.

the question is why are people buying it? if they are buying it for the sound and not the heat, it doesn't matter if it also reduces the heat "a little".

if someone buys an blue ICEE drink and it makes their tongue bright blue, is it relevant or does it matter? they are buying it because they like how it tastes, right? Who cares if it made their tongue blue - that's not the purpose or reason they bought it for. It just happened to be a side effect.

In a similar fashion if people are buying the pad to reduce the sound, I don't really think they care if it reduces the temperature of their cabin by a fraction of a degree Farenhiet or even a few degrees. Probably what they do care about is if they sense a noticeble reduction (db) in engine noise.

That is MY point.

[KTL]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it doesn't do anything. I'm putting a new one in because mine was falling down. I took out the cabin pad and still find the sound acceptable- albeit with a bit more road noise. I figure why not put the engine pad in? It's not all that heavy and offers both some sound and fire protection. I took out the cabin pad because I have a portly G50 Carrera and that pad has to be at least 30 lbs? It's HEAVY. That's why I think cabin pad is more effective than engine pad.

I think the engine pad is a bit durable but simply suffers from fatigue over the years. The pad material of the OEM one in my case has held up well (doesn't crumble) but pulled away from the wall because of the pad weight pulling the foam apart. The foam is mostly still stuck to the wall. Use a good spray glue like 3M Super 77 and it should stick up there pretty good.

[84porsche9113.2]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I am assuming first that it does provide some heat management and prevent some heat intrusion into the cabin, so is there something else that can also prevent heat transfer, and not be too heavy, and not too expensive (to borrow criteria from Randy).

Ok, seems like you 2 guys are the engineers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if running without the pad allows heat to transfer away from the engine, isn't your engine now running cooler?

If you do a really efficient job of keeping the heat in, aren't you going to now raise the heat of the engine from before you put the effective insulation on there?

I thought everyone with porsches wanted to keep their engines as cool as possible (past normal operating temps).

Couldn't over-insulating the engine compartment from heat be just as detrimental as well? I mean the way cars are designed I think they normally want it to get up to operating temps fast (where insulation would help), but after that point, they want it to stay cool right? Isn't that the whole concept behind water cooled vehicle's thermostat...

So now if you do a very very effective heat insulation job, aren't you going to increase your engine temps both when cold AND hot?

Anyway, I do think you have shifted this thread because the original poster and every one else was talking about the effect on sound (and looks), and now its shifted to heat.

[84porsche9113.2]

Originally Posted by KTL

Use a good spray glue like 3M Super 77 and it should stick up there pretty good.

You know somehow I haven't luck with the foam or glue holding up to the heat of the engine bay over time... I think it still will have to be replaced every 5 years. Which to me, is a PITA.

In fact, my hood shocks and deck shocks went out too, probalby in less than 5 years after replacing with new. And this is on a weekend use car. For those I finally upgraded to the lifetime ones. Hopefully they will last.

Anyway, I think maintenance is a "necessary evil". But it is a necessary evil I'll perform IF I have to, especially preventative maintenance. I would have preferred not to replace the shocks but they failed and I had no choice - for me it is not an option to leave them out and hold up the lids with a stick or something. With this engine pad I know it will likely fall apart on me again in 5 years, so if I can take it out, don't notice much increase in sound, then that's better for me and less work, and less "necessary evils" to worry about.

I can guarantee you IF the glue does fail in 5 years you won't be able to simply reuse or reglue that same pad back. By then it will be too hard and brittle (not to mention dirty and dusty and unable to adhere to any glue) and you will have to replace the pad with a new one again.

[rusnak]

The original poster was talking about his Engine Pad/ Toast Stick and the fact that it was installed, and the details around the install job.

Seems to me the install job was already talked out, but if you want to add something to the discussion as to how you did an engine pad install, go ahead I won't be offended in the least.

I think the only way sound proofing material is going to make your engine "run hotter" is if the material falls into your cooling fan and is blown into the oil cooler or the cylinder cooling fins. I don't think of the passenger cabin an efficient heat sink either, what with all the carpet and not to mention air in the cabin. Not a good way to cool your motor by relying on your passenger cabin to get "hotter" in other words.

Interesting discussion though, to say the least. btw how are you wearing out these parts (hood shocks, engine pad) in less than 5 years?!?!?

My car is almost a daily driver and I have a hard time wearing them out in 7+ years.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I am, however, looking into certain ray gun technologies in the underground laboratory.

Did you see the segment on 60 Minutes Sunday about the military's ray gun???? very cool.

[84porsche9113.2]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I don't think of the passenger cabin an efficient heat sink either, what with all the carpet and not to mention air in the cabin. Not a good way to cool your motor by relying on your passenger cabin to get "hotter" in other words.

Interesting discussion though, to say the least. btw how are you wearing out these parts (hood shocks, engine pad) in less than 5 years?!?!?

My car is almost a daily driver and I have a hard time wearing them out in 7+ years.

either you are very lucky, or I am just very unlucky. either way, I can only go based on my past experiences, and this is what I'm left with to make my decisions. besides, I don't think he fact that your car is a daily driver and mine is a weekend car has any relevance or effect on the rate at which the hood and deck lid shocks wear out because driving or not driving the car would not seem to put any stress on these parts (although it probalby does affect the engine pad).

it would be interesting to hear from others what their experiences about the pad longevity is.

by the way, you constantly seem to be trying to twist my words around. I never said i was trying to cool my engine by making the engine compartment hotter or using it as a heat sink.

To the contrary all this time I've been CONSISTENT in saying the pad is described as and sold as a "sound" pad and not a heat pad. Don't you understand that this means I don't think that the absence and/or presence of the pad affects the temperature of the cabin to a degree that I should be concerned about or notice? Even you seem to imply this is the case (that the OEM pad may not be doing the best job of heat insulation), because you yourself are looking for a "more efficient' and/or durable heat insulating solution than the OEM one -- and this in and of itself ironically helps to makes the case that the pad is designed more for sound and not for heat.

Could it be that the "sound pad" doesn't really do that great a job of heat insulation because it wasn't designed as a heat pad in the first place?

I did say that putting MORE efficient insulation in the engine compartment than factory or stock to keep the heat in (or out of the cabin, as you say), would seem to logically increase the engine temps, not the other way around. If you think of an engine bay like a cooler (like the plastic kind you take to a picnic), the more effieicent the walls of the cooler or engine bay in this case, the longer whatever is inside it stays cool (or in this case hot), correct? In this case that's not a completely perfect example because we have part of the engine hanging out on the bottom of the car and not all the walls are insulated. But the gist of it is that if you are trying to put very efficient heat insulation, then the heat would be kept in, and in theory i would think the engine should run a little hotter.

In fact, RWebb has already aluded to this previously: "It is "updated" but not an updated sound pad.... I'd pass. If you want a shiny one - that will reflect heat back down onto the already too hot engine - Wayne has them. He also has the correct factory pad."

[deshetlr]

I posted this thread to show that the sound pad could be installed without an engine drop, indeed reduces sound, and improves the appearance of the engine compartment. We now have a full blown discussion about heat control and weight. I love this BB!

[RWebb]

That's nothing - see livi's simple query re evolution in OT.

I did see the area denial 'ray' gun segment - this thing has been around for a while... Mine will be much better. It will not deny use of an area to humans, it will deny humans the use of their brains, but only when they deny facts.

[rusnak]

hahahaha

I think Stewie has perfected a working hand-held model. You have to say something like "you contemptable Harpy!" before squeezing the trigger.