Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 24 votes, 4.79 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Closed Thread
Throw it on the ground!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,213
A/C Upgrade Project starts tomorrow!

Well, there are just too many options to choose from when faced with repairing, replacing or upgrading the A/C on our cars. I've gone back and forth in my plans to convert to 134a, install an underbelly condenser and whether or not to go with the ProCooler. Here is my final plan - somewhat of a "best of the best" approach. Installation starts tomorrow.

Griffiths Duehl Kuehl rear fender condenser kit (impressive build quality)
Kuehl Serpentine Evaporator
All new barrier hose
Factory rebuilt Nippondenso Compressor
RennAire Desert Duty front condenser
ProCooler
Convert to 134a (since Kuehl system was designed specifically to run 134a).
Keeping my OEM tube & fin rear deck condenser w/3 cooling fans (replaced summer 06)


ProCooler arrived today. Can't wait to get started!
__________________
Mark
1987 911 Coupe
Granite Green Metallic
Happy Birthday to the Ground:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e4e2187156/andy-samberg-i-threw-it-on-the-ground

Last edited by mthomas58; 03-07-2008 at 01:06 PM..
Old 03-07-2008, 10:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,087
Mark:

what state is your AC system in now? Hold off on the Pro Cooler. I mean buy it for sure, but install it last. 134a is cheap.

Also, buy a vacuum pump if you are going to do the work yourself. The Seiko compressor is supposedly better than the ND one. I have the ND one because it was all that I could find at the time and I had been waiting on a hand built rotary compressor for months and finally said screw it.

Last edited by rusnak; 03-07-2008 at 10:47 AM..
Old 03-07-2008, 10:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #2 (permalink)
Throw it on the ground!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusnak View Post
Mark:

what state is your AC system in now? Hold off on the Pro Cooler. I mean buy it for sure, but install it last. 134a is cheap.

Also, buy a vacuum pump if you are going to do the work yourself. The Seiko compressor is supposedly better than the ND one. I have the ND one because it was all that I could find at the time and I had been waiting on a hand built rotary compressor for months and finally said screw it.

In terms of current state of my system, I am running R12 and orig non-barrier hoses. I developed a leak in the orig evaporator as evidenced by traces of oil in the drain puddle last summer. My static pressure was 50 this AM before having the refridgerant recovered. I think this would be considered low as normal static pressure should be closer to 80-90. Additionally, on Monday it was 70 degrees ambient here and I was getting 70 degree vent temps

I'll be ripping the entire system out tomorrow (except for the rear condenser that I will flush) and installing the components listed above plus a high/low pressure switch.

I plan on having the system professionally charged, but I might see if the local Autozone has a vacuum pump for rent so I can check for leaks and get a good overnight pull to dry it out. My sense is the shops generally don't pull a vacuum as long or as many times as they should to get all the moisture out of the system.
__________________
Mark
1987 911 Coupe
Granite Green Metallic
Happy Birthday to the Ground:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e4e2187156/andy-samberg-i-threw-it-on-the-ground

Last edited by mthomas58; 04-13-2008 at 05:14 PM..
Old 03-07-2008, 11:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,087
awesome, pics would be appreciated.
Old 03-07-2008, 11:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #4 (permalink)
Tired Member
 
DaddyGlenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,123
Garage
Very similar to the path I took a couple years ago. You won't be disappointed.
__________________
Glenn
'78 911SC RoW - Daily Driver
'85 944 - Track Car
'00 740iL (Sport) - Wife's
'00 Suburban 2500 - Family Truckster
Old 03-07-2008, 12:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #5 (permalink)
Toxic
 
derkpitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: ATL, GA
Posts: 301
Garage
The best way to ck for leaks is to use pressure, not vacuum.
If it leaks some soapy water will find it.
Nitrogen gas would be my first choice.
__________________
Bruce
88 Carrera Coupe, 12 Dodge Ram Hemi,
69 Barracuda Fastback, 68 Barracuda Convertible 5spd
The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollar$.
Old 03-07-2008, 01:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Throw it on the ground!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,213
A few pics of the new components.



Fender Condensers w/ 8" and 13" spal fans.



Denso factory rebuilt compressor





RennAire Desert Duty front condenser is 1" thicker than OEM unit (2- 1/4" vs 1- 1/4")

__________________
Mark
1987 911 Coupe
Granite Green Metallic
Happy Birthday to the Ground:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e4e2187156/andy-samberg-i-threw-it-on-the-ground
Old 03-07-2008, 08:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #7 (permalink)
Original Owner
 
tsuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,627
I see a ProCooler there so I'll mention something for the record.

It is shipped with a "FACTORY VACUUM". This is so the internal desiccant in the drier does not absorb water from the ambient air and can then absorb water from your A/C system later! Water will cause your expansion valve to freeze among other things.

You will hear that vacuum suck when you open the drier fitting caps (not the jacket caps).

Thus you should NOT OPEN or install that ProCooler until about 10 minutes before you plan to evacuate your system... or you will just be wasting desiccant capacity and dramatically reducing the drier ability to absorb moisture like its supposed to.

It should be BIG BOLD on the instructions. DO NOT OPEN OR INSTALL UNTIL READY TO EVACUATE.

$300!!!
__________________
tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 03-08-2008, 09:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #8 (permalink)
Original Owner
 
tsuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,627
Another note I've not seen much is MAKE sure your new expansion valve was set for R134A not R-12.

With R134A you want low side pressures of 18-20psi to get really cold. That control comes from the expansion valve adjustment. If it was set for R-12 you'd see 28-30 low side PSI and get only 40+F or so at the vents w 134a.

So whoever sold you that valve make sure it was set for R134a not R-12. And if they say its the same or doesn't matter you should get it somewhere else.
__________________
tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 03-08-2008, 09:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,109
I think it's best to buy your own 2 stage vacuum pump.
A real good new Robinaire 4 CFM 2 stage pump can be had for around $225 shipped.
I bought this one and it's excellent http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/ROB-15434.html

You'll need it more than once and you'll know it's in good working shape with clean fresh oil in it if you buy it new.
Nice manifold gauges are usually around $60 on up. Harbor Freight has some for about $40 that should work well.
Always unscrew the yellow hose from the manifold gauge enough to purge the air out of it before filling the system so you're not putting some air back in when charging. It's obvious when the air has been replaced with R134 at the fitting, then tighten it back up and start charging the system with the R134 bottle right side up so gas is going in and not liqued (unless you really know what you're doing) or you may hurt the AC compressor.

And a good vacuum pump is about the same price as paying a shop to do a quickie consumer level 15 minute evacuation and R134 charge here in S. Florida.
You can buy R134 in 30 pound bottles for around $100.
Thats enough refrigerent for about 10 fills depending on the car your doing, so you can do your other cars or friends too.

No shop around here will ever do it right... it takes way too long, oil has to be changed frequently in the vacuum pump (they don't), and they need to do it quick and move on to the next car to make money.

You have to do it yourself to have it done right these days.
Old 03-08-2008, 09:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,087
JFairman,

I'm with you on almost all of what you said, but if you are talking about the venturi type of pump at Harbor Freight, then I have one almost like it. I bought it from Napa Auto about 6 years ago when there were few options, and before the Chinese decided to make a knock off.

It simply does not pull enough vacuum to be effective in my opinion. I like the one you listed from Tool Warehouse much more. It can pull a vacuum for hourse, which is what I think should be done with a 911 AC system, with all of the hoses and whatnot.

I see the ProCooler is not painted anymore. No matter, it's probably just as good. I wonder how long mine will last.
Old 03-08-2008, 01:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,109
Those venturi vacuum pumps are not a good way to do it. You would probably burn out a shop compressor running it non stop to use one of them and use a lot of electricity... and they don't pull a vacuum much below 26-27 inches.
They do work good for flushing out brake fluid by sucking it out the brake caliper bleeders. There's no pump oil to get contaminated with brake fluid in the venturi type doing that.

The Robinaire pump I did mention will pull a vacuum to 29" and you can run it all day or night if you want no problem.

I've heard it's best to do it on a hot day... so it might be a good idea to put a fan next to the vacuum pump to help cool the motor on it when running it in the sun on a hot day.

The only thing from Harbor Freight I mentioned were the AC manifold gauges they sell for around $40. I havn't looked at them so I don't know how cheaply made they are, but they would probably be OK for home use.
Old 03-08-2008, 01:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,087
ok sorry, my mistake.

I bought the ac manifold gauge set from Kragen about 6 years ago when I started to put my system together. They didn't hold up well. I think it's a case of you get what you pay for. The ones from Sears look pretty good, but I'm still amortizing the cost of the Kragen set. I keep everything in plastic storage boxes because it gets dusty around here in the summer time.

MThomas, those are some biiig fans there. Huge condensers too. Can't wait for more pics.
Old 03-08-2008, 02:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #13 (permalink)
Throw it on the ground!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsuter View Post
I see a ProCooler there so I'll mention something for the record.

It is shipped with a "FACTORY VACUUM". This is so the internal desiccant in the drier does not absorb water from the ambient air and can then absorb water from your A/C system later! Water will cause your expansion valve to freeze among other things.

You will hear that vacuum suck when you open the drier fitting caps (not the jacket caps).

Thus you should NOT OPEN or install that ProCooler until about 10 minutes before you plan to evacuate your system... or you will just be wasting desiccant capacity and dramatically reducing the drier ability to absorb moisture like its supposed to.

It should be BIG BOLD on the instructions. DO NOT OPEN OR INSTALL UNTIL READY TO EVACUATE.

$300!!!

Thanks for the tip on installing the ProCooler last and just before evac. You've now got me rethinking my plans. No luck finding a rental vacuum pump & still concerned that the shop will not evac as long as they should. So, I might just pull the trigger and buy one.
__________________
Mark
1987 911 Coupe
Granite Green Metallic
Happy Birthday to the Ground:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e4e2187156/andy-samberg-i-threw-it-on-the-ground
Old 03-09-2008, 04:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #14 (permalink)
Throw it on the ground!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsuter View Post
Another note I've not seen much is MAKE sure your new expansion valve was set for R134A not R-12.

With R134A you want low side pressures of 18-20psi to get really cold. That control comes from the expansion valve adjustment. If it was set for R-12 you'd see 28-30 low side PSI and get only 40+F or so at the vents w 134a.

So whoever sold you that valve make sure it was set for R134a not R-12. And if they say its the same or doesn't matter you should get it somewhere else.
I'll be sure to confirm. Thanks!
__________________
Mark
1987 911 Coupe
Granite Green Metallic
Happy Birthday to the Ground:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e4e2187156/andy-samberg-i-threw-it-on-the-ground
Old 03-09-2008, 04:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #15 (permalink)
Throw it on the ground!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,213
Couple of progress pics. Evaporator leak confirmed - check out the oil in the evap box. Good news and bad news on the box removal. Good - found three clips in the bottom of the smugglers box. Bad - found a crack in the lower left hand corner of the box that surely was leaking air and used gorilla glue to patch.





Desert duty unit was a bit of a fitment teaser trying to line up the brackets, spacers and bolts which were too short creating yet another run to Home Depot. Also had to remove the crash bar for easier access.



Test fit pic of one of the rear fender units. These babies are money! Incredibly well designed.

__________________
Mark
1987 911 Coupe
Granite Green Metallic
Happy Birthday to the Ground:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e4e2187156/andy-samberg-i-threw-it-on-the-ground
Old 03-09-2008, 04:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #16 (permalink)
911 addict
 
mtbguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 252
Hi there- It looks like its going to be a COOL summer for you!

Im in ATL also and just started my project - using with the entire Rennaire system and Pro-cooler. I will add the interior Kuehl vent kit .

two questions:
1)I see you are switching to 134, but sticking with the r12 Denso compressor, is that a problem?
2) are you going to add a low pressure cut-off switch (I'm debating if I need one- I'm staying with r12)


also- any luck with a local vacuum pump rental place? I thought about trying those specialty tool rental places instead of just HomeDepot/Autozone.

Thanks
__________________
1987 Carrera Cab
Toyota Landcruiser
500SL

Last edited by mtbguy; 03-09-2008 at 07:16 AM..
Old 03-09-2008, 07:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
khamul02's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South of Heaven [MS]
Posts: 1,629
Consider this stuff. Jim Sims recommended it and it seems to work really well.
http://www.refrig.com/nylog.html
Also, on the Procooler, they will replace it after you open it up a few times. I'm not sure if they make you send in your old one but the price was somewhere around $100 to 150, which isn't cheap but beats 299 for a new one. The support on the Procooler is unbeatable!
__________________
Tom Hutchinson
80 Targa / 81 Coupe / 71 Targa (in Porsche heaven)
"If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself." Ferdinand Porsche
Old 03-09-2008, 07:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #18 (permalink)
 
Now available:  101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster!
Registered User
 
khamul02's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South of Heaven [MS]
Posts: 1,629
Never mind, Caught the bottle in your picture:
__________________
Tom Hutchinson
80 Targa / 81 Coupe / 71 Targa (in Porsche heaven)
"If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself." Ferdinand Porsche
Old 03-09-2008, 07:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #19 (permalink)
911 addict
 
mtbguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by khamul02 View Post
Consider this stuff. Jim Sims recommended it and it seems to work really well.
http://www.refrig.com/nylog.html
Also, on the Procooler, they will replace it after you open it up a few times. I'm not sure if they make you send in your old one but the price was somewhere around $100 to 150, which isn't cheap but beats 299 for a new one. The support on the Procooler is unbeatable!
I noticed this stuff seems to be popular- do you know if the blue or red Nylog is for R12?
__________________
1987 Carrera Cab
Toyota Landcruiser
500SL
Old 03-09-2008, 07:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    #20 (permalink)
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:54 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.