Torque Values with Loc-tite

[RWebb]

and that is a true blessing!

while we are waiting for Pete to track down that datum, why not enlighten us about dental bonding agents?

a lot of research has gone into those "specialty glues"

[barney911rs]

Randy, what started as a simple comment you posted from Locktite, has morphed into a big thread. It's been very interesting.

[rusnak]

so, Optimoly HT or Kendall Blue Grease, lithium based. I guess I'd better buy the stuff, as well as a smaller torque wrench.

my dad actually performs dental implants with several types of systems. I sat in once on a lecture that some of his buds were putting on (a lot like this PP board you know, they share knowledge quite freely). I was there to help move some audio video equipment into the rented room. From what I gather, they use an anchoring screw into the bone (is this called an abutment, Dentist?) which is tightened to a specific torque value (not bolt stretch). The screw is made out of titanium. A post is then screwed into the anchor bolt thingy, and if it's a crown or a bridge, they cement on to that. If it's an implant, then they come back later and screw a tooth onto the bolt. This is all done in live bone tissue!!! The success depends on the patients own immune system and ability to heal and grow new bone.

But guess what? There is some controversy about torquing technique on these things as well. Some people say tighten, then wait a while, re-tighten. Other just tighten and leave it alone. The little torque wrenches are cool. I didn't ask them about loctite. Since my dad is a periodontist, he does not do crowns and stuff, so I can't ask him about adhesives. He makes cool plastic or plaster molds though. They call them study models.

Dentists get to play with a LOT of cool tools and gadgets. I would not be surprised if a lot of dentists were gadget fanatics.

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

1. I bought my last tube from Performance Products. Brand name/number = LubroMoly/LM 508. You might try Pep Boys/AutoZone also.

The national chains pretty much have nothing but the Permatex aluminum based antiseize. I've found it works ok for lug nuts but the 1600° temp limit doesn't work at all on engine parts and is totally useless on the exhaust.

Permatex makes a copper antiseize with a 1800° limit (pn 09128 & 31163) and a nickel based antisieze with a 2400° limit (pn 77124 & 77164). You can sometimes find the copper at a really good, old style autoparts store like some Napas and a few independents. I have never seen the nickel based antiseize except on the internet.

Basically the internet is your friend.
(Oh, and on your exhaust use copper nuts with the copper antiseize to reduce corrosion...)

[Quicksilver]

I had an odd idea... How about checking the manufacturers site for information about torque values related to using their product!

http://www.loctite.co.th/int_henkel/loctite_au/index.cfm?&pageid=466&layout=1

They list really specific information about to torque, clamp load, and friction relating to a number of different variables. Pretty cool.

[dentist90]

The torque wrench for implants and associated hardware is a tiny little beam style, measured in N-cm (approx 45 N-cm max). All our torque values are 'wet', as it is really hard to get dry live bone! Nature provides the LocTite as your bone actually integrates with the implants to form a (hopefully) irreversible bond to the titanium implant.
And that stupid little wrench is WAY more expensive than the big MF I have in my toolbox.
The attachments bolted to the implant (we call these mesostructures) are torqued to a lesser value than the torque of the implant itself with no thread locker, but we usually try to incorporate anti-rotation schemes to prevent backing out with repeated chewing cycles, such as joing two together in a bridge, or placing a single crown which sort of wedges between it's neighbors due to it's shape.

[Peter Zimmermann]

Originally Posted by dentist90

The torque wrench for implants and associated hardware is a tiny little beam style, measured in N-cm (approx 45 N-cm max). All our torque values are 'wet', as it is really hard to get dry live bone! Nature provides the LocTite as your bone actually integrates with the implants to form a (hopefully) irreversible bond to the titanium implant.
And that stupid little wrench is WAY more expensive than the big MF I have in my toolbox.
The attachments bolted to the implant (we call these mesostructures) are torqued to a lesser value than the torque of the implant itself with no thread locker, but we usually try to incorporate anti-rotation schemes to prevent backing out with repeated chewing cycles, such as joing two together in a bridge, or placing a single crown which sort of wedges between it's neighbors due to it's shape.

When my appointment, now set for the 24th, comes up, and my dentist is doing his thing to my chopper, I'll ask him what he uses - he's done those screw-in deals for a long time (I need one but don't have a spare $2500+ lying around right now!). I do know that his/my hygiene gal is really good with a buffer and compound, I'm trying to get her to take care of a rock chip on my bumper...

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by barney911rs

Randy, what started as a simple comment you posted from Locktite, has morphed into a big thread. It's been very interesting.

It's always my goal "to start sumthin' "

- You should see what I started with a bird called the Sage Grouse...

[911pcars]

Any large industrial supply house like MSC, Grainger, McMaster, etc. should carry these products. NAPA may as well.

Sherwood

[Porsche_monkey]

The loctite article is interesting. It claims
a) the dry solvent cleaned bolt would never achieve the clamp load for which it was designed, irrespective of the amount of torque applied

and

b) the bolt lubricated with anti-seize compound is stretched well into its elastic limit and is a disaster waiting to happen

Furthermore for all you 'torque wrench calibration junkies'

The “K” factor variation ranging from 0.11 to 0.17 found in seemingly identical fasteners here results in a substantial clamp load variation. At exactly the same torque level of 24 foot pounds, variations between 4500 pounds and 6700 pounds are experienced. This is not exactly a recipe for reliable engineering assembly.

So: Dry is no good. Anti-sieze is a disaster waiting to happen. You have no idea of the bolt tension in most cases. And the bolt tension is not repeatable on "apparently identical fasteners from the same batch of steel, and having undergone the same heat treatment"

You can't win. You can even tie. You've lost before they start the game. Unless you buy from Loctite...

[RWebb]

I missed that and wondered why - turns out that is the NZ & Aus. Loctite site, not the US one.

[rusnak]

Sage Grouse?

I know that dude, man. That old cat used to hang out at the bus stop in front of Harbor Freight. He always dispenses wisdom in exchange for a few extra coins. I gave him a McDonalds gift certificate, and he blessed my ride.