How long does it take to remove a broken cylinder / head stud?

RazorRacer · 08-11-2005, 07:54 AM

It's fun to learn...

1.5 hours with dremel tool pliers, channel locks and screw driver - no turn at all

1 hour to purchase vice grips and propane torch

2 hours to heat and turn - about 4 turns total

Result: 4 turns total!!!

How many more turns are left? My life has a limited amount of time to remove one broken cylinder / head stud. We had to dremel the sides of the stud. It took one of us holding the vice grip and another one of us using channel locks on the vice grips to get enough pressure on the stud AND THEN it would turn maybe 1/8 of a turn about 1/3 of the times we tried.

My hands are sore and my friend won't be able to help tonight.

Heat, heat, heat seems to help. Once the block is cold, all bets are off. I have ruined the vice grips. The teeth are worn smooth.

78SC with aluminum block

sammyg2 · 08-11-2005, 08:40 AM

If you get a MAPP gas torch or an oxy-acetalyne torch you will have the stud out in 15 minutes. Propane just doesn't get hot enough as the aluminium case sucks the heat away too fast.
You have to be careful, if you crank too hard you might break the stud off flush with the case, then the swear words will really fly.
On a good bad scale, that would be down at the bottom near the bad part.

JBO · 08-11-2005, 08:49 AM

When you say one, hopefully you realize that if the other lower unbroken studs are dilavar you need to remove and replace them all with steel.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

I would not use a MAPP torch. It can get too hot. The trick is to heat the inside of the spigot where the stud is. Don't heat the stud! Heat it for several mintes - like at least five (it seems like a long time).

For one of the studs where I stripped the threads (tough little suckers) I dremeled it into a square - put a large pair of vice grips on it as hard as I could and then heated the case.

If you can cool the stud as you are heating the case - then even better - Before wrenching one one particular hard to move stud - I heated the case for about five minutes with a propane torch and wrapped the stud in one of those flexible freezer gels/icepack. The steel does a good job of transfering the cool - then turn while your partner is heating/cooling.

And yes, I would replace them all with steel or even better - Supertech Head Studs!

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

I just did this - it's very fresh in my head!

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Heating the case is great/preferred but heating the stud works also. You need to get the Loctite up to something like 400 degrees to break it's grip. If you heat the case I would think about replacing the nearby thru-bolt O-rings. Get a MAPP gas torch at the hardware store.
-Chris

sammyg2 · 08-11-2005, 09:33 AM

I used MAPP gas on mine and it worked slick.
Everyone i know says use MAPP gas or oxy-acetylene, Jeremy you are the first person I know or have read who has recommended propane instead.
When I did it I directed the MAPP gas flame directly inside the spigot and held it there for 5 minutes. There was no sign of the aluminium getting too hot at all.

Bobboloo · Bobboloo's Garage

Loctite is your enemy here. As Chris said you have to get it hot enough to let go. My personal experience is that heating the stud worked better than trying to heat the case since the stud retains the heat and the case just heat sinks the heat away. Not trying to re-open that debate, just telling you my experience. I used Mapp as well.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Wayne recommends not using mapp in the engine rebuilding book on the subject of removing head studs...

I used propane because of this.

Nine9six · Nine9six's Garage

Personally, I would thank God that I only had ONE broken stud.

Jeff Alton · 08-11-2005, 12:26 PM

I have always just used Propane. But I think so far the headstud gods have been smiling on me

I am averaging about 30 mins to get 12 lower studs out! Like I said, I have been lucky. (knock on wood) The funny thing is the 3.0 I just did had an upper stud come out when I tried to unbolt the head! Threads were fine. I have been using some craftsman products to grab a hold of the broken ones and just double nutting the ones that are not broken. I know someday I will meet a crankcase I will want to through off the roof.........

Jeff

RazorRacer · 08-11-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nine9six
Personally, I would thank God that I only had ONE broken stud.

Very good point!

Here's what I need: I need vice grips that don't loose the edge on their teeth and a clamping device to close the vice grips with enough pressure to turn the stud.

MotoSook · 08-11-2005, 12:58 PM

Oxy-Acet is the best way to get them loose IMO. You heat the case spigot like others said, move the flame around the area behind the stud. You'll hear the loctite sizzle or it'll smoke when the area gets hot enough. Move the heat around so you are not concentrating it in one spot.

Once the loctite melts, you won't need much clamping force from the visegrip to turn the stud.

And like Chris said...heating the stud is OK to. The loctite is what grabs the stud. W/o the loctite, you could turn the stud out/in by hand.

As the case cools you (if you take the flame away) you'll fell the stud start to drag.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

30 minutes for 12 studs - man - that's sick Jeff - I spent several hours (for all of them) once you get a feel for how much heat/torque it went quickly through the rest.

Jeff Alton · 08-11-2005, 01:06 PM

Like I said, someone is smiling on me. I am sure that I am next in line for a tough set of studs. My motor is comming apart at the end of september so maybe that will be the one! Stay tuned!

Jeff

RazorRacer · 08-11-2005, 07:12 PM

Souk, I agree with you. Once the loctite melted, the stud came out. Yes, it came out. VICTORY...hahahahaha.

Nice pic Jeremy964. Why is your fan / alternator still attached to the engine?

BTW, the stud that I purchased from Pelican has red paste on the engine side of the stud. Is this Loctite and the stud is ready to install? Or do I have to add Loctite 721 (or whatever the number is) like the book says?

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by RazorRacer

Nice pic Jeremy964. Why is your fan / alternator still attached to the engine?

Because fellow pelicanite (Seadweller) wanted to see it put together...

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by RazorRacer
Souk, I agree with you. Once the loctite melted, the stud came out. Yes, it came out. VICTORY...hahahahaha.

Nice pic Jeremy964. Why is your fan / alternator still attached to the engine?

BTW, the stud that I purchased from Pelican has red paste on the engine side of the stud. Is this Loctite and the stud is ready to install? Or do I have to add Loctite 721 (or whatever the number is) like the book says?

In the "old days" a set of head studs would come with bubble gum and some Porsche racer collector cards. Now they just put a little gum on the threads. Sigh, those were the days before the bean counters at Porsche took over...

Just kidding.

The pink stuff on the threads is Loctite as far as I know.
-Chris

RazorRacer · 08-12-2005, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
In the "old days" a set of head studs would come with bubble gum and some Porsche racer collector cards. Now they just put a little gum on the threads. Sigh, those were the days before the bean counters at Porsche took over...

-Chris

I'm starting my day with a smile 'cause of you. Thanks.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Chase the stud with a die to make sure the threads are clean - otherwise the new one can be a real b!tch to get in to the proper depth.